This is my blog on how I plan to build a dream. Sailing can be VERY expensive. I believe with enough determination, planning, research and commitment, it can be done. I've had some say this is a non workable plan. For blue water off shore sailing I suspect they are right. The hulls with this design are not IMHO suitable for off shore.
For messing about on a small lake like we have around here, I believe this will work. For shore hugging coastal sailing I THINK it MIGHT work.
As far as it not working, I'm from St Louis, home of the Arch. They said that was an unworkable idea also. After 40 some years it is still standing just exactly like it originally did.
Currently I am landlocked in the south west part of Oklahoma USA and have to get some other stuff dealt with before I can actually hit the ocean. In the mean while we have several lakes in the area. For now the immediate goal for "The Toy" is to continue to collect parts, then build something that resembles a catamaran to use on local lakes to learn the basics. The budget is your basic shoe string but what the heck, its still doable, It just requires creativity. It would not be the first time the impossible got done. Time has a way of showing how what seems to be impossible can be done.
For now it is going to be a heavily modified hybrid between two cats I read about on line. Thanks to Rebelcat and http://junkraft.blogspot.com/ and all the other sites I reviewed that helped me come up with the idea for my small inland sailor. To the guys who built these unorthodox cats. THANKS! Have not bought the rebel cat video yet. Hope to in the near future.
I figure if they can do it, I can, at least for local sailing on a nice small man made lake here in the Midwest. I would NOT EVER try this toy in off shore blue water. The hulls are way to small in diameter and it is NOT designed to be structurally sound in my opinion for any thing remotely close to ocean conditions.
Yes, I thought about making this and expanding the hulls for off shore use. I have this idea that is the hulls were reinforced, solid wood doweling that has been epoxied and inserted as reinforcement inside of the pipes etc, then extra layers of foam and bottles could be applied to enlarge hulls to a safe size. I have no way to test this. If any one has some comments or alternative ideas on that I'd love to hear them.
Originally I really wanted to do a modified version of the 15" PVC on Rebel cat but.....
1.The price and shipping on over sized PVC to this "small town " is outrageous. (Read over sized as any thing bigger then 4".) Saving the bottles from all the bottled water we drink around here suddenly became a VERY attractive. The basic concept on construction is get 4 " PVC pipe to use as a structural core and glue the bottles around it to get enough float. That should avoid the "waist" issues the guys on the junk raft encountered. Let's face it tying up a bunch of empty bottles in a net with nothing else for shape is going to have at least one issue.
General Criteria for the boat
This boat needs to be able to fit on top of my 1990 Chevy Lumina for transport. NO TRAILER! The Rebel cat design is modular so that covers that need. It will break down for being re- assembled and un-assembled at the lake, with each section being light/ small enough for me to lift and remove from roof of car with out help.
2. Needs to have something of a decent size for one and possibly 3 adults. What can I say I have two roomies, my adult son and his best friend. You KNOW they are going to want to help test this toy after it is made. I can hear it now... Mom, can I borrow the keys to the boat? ........ Mom, did you hear me?...... Mom, are you here?...... 0)~
Solutions
To have enough float I'm thinking start out with 24' O.D. around each hull.
Instead of doing round, I think I'm going to go for a more triangular shape The idea is I can make solar panels to fit the width of the top of the hulls and solve the issue of them facing away from the sun. The theory is no matter which way the sun is at least some sun should hit that side, except of course for where the sail makes shade. Also the thought occurs I can maybe put small spots for light storage or the equivalent of drink cup spots.
UPDATE ! The idea of molded in storage in hull tops is canceled.
What kind of glue to use is an unanswered question. Am thinking about testing regular PVC glue first, If that does not work get out the hot glue gun and see what it does. For extra safety to make sure it does not all fall apart once it is on the water, I plan to put some sort of netting around the whole thing.
To increase float the idea of using the foam in a can between bottles and paint the entire thing with marine grade paint or wrap it with the bathroom plastic wall board and fasten it with screws and glue, then paint with a suitable marine grade paint.
Basic plan is use 2- 10 ft sections on each side, glue a union to one section and use rubber washers and bolts to hold each side together for on water. Do a dry fit before I fasten the first row of bottles to the second section to get them placed so there are no gaps or waist in mid section of hull.
Have each section fasten to deck by 2" PVC inserted/ glued to 2x4x4 "t"s at each end and maybe mid sections that go up and cross over to deck area. Since this has to fit on top of car, use a sheet of fiber glassed or heavily epoxied marine grade ply wood that will be bolted on top of PVC frame, with same design as hull to fasten the two sides together. ( Union and bolts with rubber washers mid frame) . Thanks to who ever it was that showed on line how to drill out holes to put epoxy in to protect that area of wood.
Am considering using that same plastic wall covering they use for bathrooms to make cones. Not sure, the junk boat guys did not have any cones so I'm wondering is that really needed?
Sails:
for original sail I'm thinking a blue tarp due to ease of availability and price. If I really mess this up they are cheap enough it won't break the bank to get another. That also has the advantage of being cheap enough for me to play with different ideas, Junq or traditional? Triangle mainsail or a square or rectangle yard arm style ? Lateen?
Regardless the rigging has to be set up for single handed sailing. With a beam of 8 to 12 feet maximum there is not a lot of room for crew.
UPDATE: Some one was nice enough to point out to me the rebel cat is made with thin wall PVC, not the Schedule 40 as I had posted earlier. I'm going to stay with the Schedule 40 for the simple reason its easy to find almost any kind of fitting I want to use locally. I have never seen a hardware store that did not stock the parts I need for the basic design I'm working on.
It's thicker and I'm definitely into over kill for the structural strength considering this is the first time I have done any thing like this. This decision is based on my gut. I don't have an explanation other then that but not going with the gut has always been a bad idea so.......
estimated materials for hull:
4-10 ft joints 4" PVC,
8- ?x4x4 T's
the end caps that screw together instead of unions for extension and a plug for each side
an as yet undetermined length of 2" PVC and fixtures
glue and primer or hot gun and glue
wood 4x4 or 2x4 have not decided yet.
ply wood
string to hold bottles in place while foam dries
mast
wires/cables for fore stay and back stay
Skills required so far:
cut and glue PVC
tetris skills (assemble bottles to fit around pipe)
July 29, 2010
I went to check out marine grade paints yesterday. This I'm going to have to do on line. None available here unless I check the Marina supply. Last time I went in there I learned they are VERY PROUD of their merchandise so that is probably NOT going to be an supply option. Have to do some comparative shopping.
Tried the PVC glue and super glue . Neither worked.
Do I really need glue?
Update August 18. 2010 Elmer's white glue works great for Styrofoam to Styrofoam gluing. Have no idea how it would hold up if it gets wet but since this is inside of hull I'm not planing on it getting wet. If it does, I need to redo hull any way so it will be a moot point.
Made the decision to just use the foam which sticks to both quite nicely while it is drying to hold things in place. I'm planning on wrapping the hulls any way so glue is not really needed for this part. In test of just connecting the pipe and bottle, once it dries as long as you don't knock it against any thing hard it holds very well. Using the plan I have in mind this will work great!
UPDATE August 18, 2010
The canned insulation foam works GREAT on gluing the recycled foam together and has the added advantage of filling i the gaps.
July 30, 2010
Mast
Been reading all night. The mast for now is going to be fast and dirty. 2 " or 3" PVC mast with dowel insert coming up through deck with mast connected under deck into PVC cross beam between hulls.
Update August 18, 2010 It has been suggested to search for a used wind surfer sail mast.
Hull Covers:
Back to Rule 1: KISS Keep It Super Simple
It appears that West Epoxy systems will work with polyurethane foam. For now I'm just going to wrap the hulls with poly tarp, lash or sew them together at the top and maybe coat it with some type of water proofing. Later if I get really energetic and after I'm sure this will work like I think it will, I'll start seriously looking at either a plain epoxy coat or maybe even get really brave and do a miniature version of a hull to experiment with fiber glassing this.
Misc thought; Check out to see if the Voc tech school has a fiber glassing class I can have that done at.
While I am at it check to see if schools have wood shops and would do a hollow mast. Other potential option, would a Tepee pole work?
Up Close and Personal
I keep getting the same types of questions in emails from various folks, so to save me retyping the same answers I'm going to include a bit about my self and post a few of the emails here as well as my response. I have the impression people are drastically concerned that I really do not have a clue what I am getting into and are basically really concerned OR they think I have to be out of my mind to even be considering this. I've been studying up on this on one level or another, for years . Granted book learning is not nearly as good as doing it but hey we all had to start somewhere.
If I sound like a real hard hearted Hannah please, forgive me. I've been up all night researching this while the house is quiet. I really am a marshmallow inside once you get to know me.
My Logic
No matter what any one does we all have great days and learning days. Why would life on a boat be any different? Chores and the unexpected happen. Landlocked or live aboard that's not going to change. To a certain extent we do get to pick what kind of chores we are responsible for and where we do those chores at and what kind of dwelling we call home. If I break down in the middle of an ocean, I'll simply do what every one else has to, I will find a way to figure it out. I've been doing that for 30 years, why should being on a boat be different? The absolute worse that can happen is I drown. Now while that is not something I want to think about, the bottom line is, if my time is up, its up. I can die landlocked as well so where I am is not a big deal to me. The only difference in that is no one has to pay to bury me. If they want a wake great, do it at someone's house and save the fee of renting a room. I promise, I won't care. What am I supposed to do sit on land and never do something I really want to do over being afraid it will have rough spots? I am not made that way.
The Woman behind the wrench
I am definitely NOT your typical high maintenance woman who has a fit over a broken nail. I don't do make up or manicures. Who has time? The last time I polished my nails was maybe 15- 20 years ago. If I put something on my face it will be soap and water to get the dirt off not put a foreign substance into my system and pay for the privilege. Other then that just some cream. Seriously how many of you ladies have poked your self in the eye putting on mascara? How many chemicals are in that stuff and it goes by our eyes? NO thank you. I used to do that but no more. .
Short of it being putrid green, taxi cab yellow or some really gross color, I don't care what color my car is as long as it runs right. I don't give a hoot what label is in my clothes as long as they are clean and fit me. My standard dress is jeans or cotton pants and a 100% cotton (preferably organic) t shirt in the summer or jeans and a long sleeve shirt with long johns in the winter, although I do clean up real nice in a dress.
I've spent the last 20 years learning what I can live with out and be perfectly happy. After I get some other things done I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on that one. I know more ways to not spend money on things we all think we need to survive then I want to remember. Come to think about it that would be a great live aboard income with the right publisher.
When my sons were preschool we camped out on raw land while building a house in a small camper 20 miles from town while their dad was off driving a rig to make a living. I literally cooked their meals over a camp fire, because the RV he borrowed was almost completely stripped out. It was however shelter. My standard, bare boned basic first aid kit for non town living has to be contained in a medium to large ice chest. We hauled our water in in milk jugs before we got the well put in for well over 2 years. When we finally got "indoor plumbing" for quite a while it was literally a garden hose ran from the pump to the kitchen or from the pump to a hot water tank on cinder blocks that we built a fire under with another garden hose ran to the kitchen to do dishes and take baths with. Remember the old westerns where they used a tub in the kitchen by the fire to bathe? Been there, done that, washed both sons and my self like that.
I know how to build and properly maintain and use an out house and a porta potty and make a emergency no sewer or porta potty available toilet. Yes, I know how to fix a regular one as well. While my credentials are outdated I've got First response, EMT, CA and GA training. I've survived a broken neck and living in an economically depressed area as single mother in a small town with extremely limited resources under circumstances that would put most in the nut house or on drugs or booze, with no family to count on for over 20 years, yet me and my family are clean and sober. I am not dependent on doctors since I use herbs for everything from a belly ache ( think sea sickness) to third degree burns ( yes I have a scar where I missed applying the herbs to prove that one.).
I've been doing my own honey does as a home owner for twenty years.
Computer repair, Plumbing , sewer lines, electrical, painting , framing, installing dry wall, insulation, gas lines, auto maintenance, yard work, landscaping, I tore out every interior wall in my house and installed insulation by my self. According to the gas company before we switched to wood heat I had the cheapest gas bill in town of 90.00 for the coldest month that winter, ( 2002?) tore out the broken antique through the wall heater that kicked in every 5 minutes and installed a new vent less. Installed a second vent less in the back of house. Tore out my kitchen to remodel, replaced every water line in this house. Replaced a gas hot water heater that was not working properly for a new energy efficient fast recovery electric. Replaced and moved a bath room, installed a second bath room. Lets see what else can I think of...... I won't need diesel classes since I will be totally electric all the way down to the outboards. Since I build the entire electrical system my self I already will know how to fix it. Having spare parts on hand I'd do any way.
I had my DOT's 30 years ago when most women in a rig were not a licensed driver. Did I mention I was in the top 5% Nation wide for girls, top 10% nation wide for both genders in the ASVAB in the field of mechanics? Also I know more ways to seal cracks around doors and windows using what ever is handy to save on the caulk and make it look good, than I want to remember. Plus I know how to cook, clean, can food, dry food, build and use use a solar food dryer, solar cooker, sew, mend, patch. Spin, quilt and even do my own laundry with or without a scrub board and a clothes line if needed. I know how to get another 50 to 100 miles down the road with a broken fan belt at night ( no alternator). My 16 drawer Craftsman tool chest that I will be putting up for sale makes a lot of men cry and my daddy made sure I was not scared of a tool box or its contents when I was 12.
I have also raised a son I am especially proud of.
Trust me on this, when it comes to sailing OK, I openly admit it, I'm as green as any stick in the woods, but honestly folks, I REALLY DO have the rest of this MORE THEN covered.
I chose these emails since they represent is the best example of the questions I have been getting., instead of posting a lot of smaller ones.
--- On Thu, 7/29/10, ****** wrote:
From: ******
Subject: RE: ****** New member
To: "Use Da Grey Matter"
Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 7:00 PM
****,
I took a quick look at your blog page. Quick because we have less than great Internet access. I have some questions I don't expect you to answer to me but to just think about for you. Think of them as thought provokers and -not- as negatives or positives or directives or must do's.
1. If you want to learn to sail, why are you spending your time building? First you have to build (spend money & time) and then learn to sail (more time & effort if not money).
Circumstances beyond my control dictate I do it this way. The closet sailing lessons require a commute that I cannot swing for a while.
2. Building will help you fix your ocean boat. But, your
ocean boat will be different materials and configuration. How applicable will this current experience be on your ocean boat?
I'll learn a lot about boats in general that I don't know now. Why would I want to wait to learn this stuff until I have a larger boat and the ocean to deal with when I do not have to ? Think baby steps.
3. Buying a "sabot" should be inexpensive and will teach
you how to sail. It's not a multi-hull but it is small and car toppable. There are similar multi-hulls out there and other monohulls too.
Compare cost in time and money of buying small to learn vs build and then learn.
never heard of those. plus see answers 1 and 2.
4. Find a "learn to sail" class at your local lake/town/college. Should be available and inexpensive. Failing that, check out the local "yacht clubs". They often have classes and look for crew on small race boats. Racing with a calm, knowledgeable skipper/owner (look for a
woman if possible) will teach you a lot.
already have that researched and lined up more or less. See answer 1.
5. Emptying your "nest"? How old is your adult son and his best friend? How long have they lived there? Do they go to school? Why is the best friend living there? Where are his parents and maybe they could go live with them? Do they have jobs? Are they likely to have jobs soon or ever? Get the picture? You may find it necessary to give them a gentle shove out the door by moving someplace where they can't go or aren't welcome long term.
extenuating circumstances
Maybe you move to a studio apartment? In fact, a
-small- studio apartment would give -you- a much better idea of how it is to live in the small confines of a small boat. Find a 250 sq ft studio with bath or maybe 300 sq ft. The smaller the boat.... Plus, it -might- save you some cash in the short run.
My house is paid for. Why would I want to pay rent? Counter productive at present. See comments about previous RV living on two separate occasions.
6. Once you learn to sail and decide to make that your
home, unless you are going to stay on the lake forever, you will need to move to the ocean side of the world. That will cost money. From there, you can shop more easily and buy the boat that you want/need. Costs
still more money. Will you work from home or find a job to support yourself in the new place?
I already have that figured into this.
7. When you start looking seriously at boats, look at as many as you can. If you are looking at fixers on the lowest price scale, look there first. Can you -really- afford to buy that 1k USDA boat knowing that to make it livable you must put in another 10 or 20k USDA? What about the slip rent you will need to pay plus the utilities or the dry storage rent? Would a 10k USDA boat that you can put another 10k USDA into be better for you since you could take less time and work to do the work necessary? Cash available vs time available vs benefit to you. If it takes 20k USDA to do it all and it takes you 5 years to do it, is that more cost/benefit than the 10k to buy and 10k to fix and only take 2.5 years? Is buying a ready to go except for minor mods better for you at 20k and 6 months to bring it up to par for you? These are things you might want to decide. You know your financial condition, skill set to do these things, your potential to work wherever you need to move to, etc.
From: ******
Subject: RE: ****** New member
To: "Use Da Grey Matter"
Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 7:00 PM
****,
I took a quick look at your blog page. Quick because we have less than great Internet access. I have some questions I don't expect you to answer to me but to just think about for you. Think of them as thought provokers and -not- as negatives or positives or directives or must do's.
1. If you want to learn to sail, why are you spending your time building? First you have to build (spend money & time) and then learn to sail (more time & effort if not money).
Circumstances beyond my control dictate I do it this way. The closet sailing lessons require a commute that I cannot swing for a while.
2. Building will help you fix your ocean boat. But, your
ocean boat will be different materials and configuration. How applicable will this current experience be on your ocean boat?
I'll learn a lot about boats in general that I don't know now. Why would I want to wait to learn this stuff until I have a larger boat and the ocean to deal with when I do not have to ? Think baby steps.
3. Buying a "sabot" should be inexpensive and will teach
you how to sail. It's not a multi-hull but it is small and car toppable. There are similar multi-hulls out there and other monohulls too.
Compare cost in time and money of buying small to learn vs build and then learn.
never heard of those. plus see answers 1 and 2.
4. Find a "learn to sail" class at your local lake/town/college. Should be available and inexpensive. Failing that, check out the local "yacht clubs". They often have classes and look for crew on small race boats. Racing with a calm, knowledgeable skipper/owner (look for a
woman if possible) will teach you a lot.
already have that researched and lined up more or less. See answer 1.
5. Emptying your "nest"? How old is your adult son and his best friend? How long have they lived there? Do they go to school? Why is the best friend living there? Where are his parents and maybe they could go live with them? Do they have jobs? Are they likely to have jobs soon or ever? Get the picture? You may find it necessary to give them a gentle shove out the door by moving someplace where they can't go or aren't welcome long term.
extenuating circumstances
Maybe you move to a studio apartment? In fact, a
-small- studio apartment would give -you- a much better idea of how it is to live in the small confines of a small boat. Find a 250 sq ft studio with bath or maybe 300 sq ft. The smaller the boat.... Plus, it -might- save you some cash in the short run.
My house is paid for. Why would I want to pay rent? Counter productive at present. See comments about previous RV living on two separate occasions.
6. Once you learn to sail and decide to make that your
home, unless you are going to stay on the lake forever, you will need to move to the ocean side of the world. That will cost money. From there, you can shop more easily and buy the boat that you want/need. Costs
still more money. Will you work from home or find a job to support yourself in the new place?
I already have that figured into this.
7. When you start looking seriously at boats, look at as many as you can. If you are looking at fixers on the lowest price scale, look there first. Can you -really- afford to buy that 1k USDA boat knowing that to make it livable you must put in another 10 or 20k USDA? What about the slip rent you will need to pay plus the utilities or the dry storage rent? Would a 10k USDA boat that you can put another 10k USDA into be better for you since you could take less time and work to do the work necessary? Cash available vs time available vs benefit to you. If it takes 20k USDA to do it all and it takes you 5 years to do it, is that more cost/benefit than the 10k to buy and 10k to fix and only take 2.5 years? Is buying a ready to go except for minor mods better for you at 20k and 6 months to bring it up to par for you? These are things you might want to decide. You know your financial condition, skill set to do these things, your potential to work wherever you need to move to, etc.
Think & consider.
already have but thanks for your concern
8. If you were to buy your ocean boat and move aboard and then rebuild while you live there, would you be happy living in a construction zone for months and maybe a few years? Could you support a "work
wardrobe" in that mess if you worked at an outside job?
Been there done that, for most of the last 30 years of my life as a matter of fact, so this is just another day at the beach. I lived in a RV with a son and four dogs three of which were large animals, plus the experiences mentioned above. The only difference it this time that day will really be at the beach that I CHOOSE. 0)~
There are lots things to consider and it is a big jump if
you have never lived on a boat or in a small space before. If you have to be responsible for rebuilding the head is that any thing like rebuilding and installing a toilet? 0)~ or fixing the sink ( see above) or rebuilding the pumps (You got me on that one, I admit I have never rebuilt a pump) not to mention the normal cooking and cleaning that must go on, it is a big job. You need to be as self sufficient as possible. Of course, there are classes you can take from diesel mechanics to how to varnish, paint, or plumb and the like. Not to mention classes on sailing and navigation.
See above
I applaud you for what you are doing! It is not an easy thing. It is not usually an inexpensive thing either although it can be if your aspirations are not so high and you can live at a lower standard of comfort. Only -you- can answer these questions about what you need and want. Think, consider, and choose wisely. You -can- do this, and do it safely, -if- you want to enough. Do you?
already have but thanks for your concern
8. If you were to buy your ocean boat and move aboard and then rebuild while you live there, would you be happy living in a construction zone for months and maybe a few years? Could you support a "work
wardrobe" in that mess if you worked at an outside job?
Been there done that, for most of the last 30 years of my life as a matter of fact, so this is just another day at the beach. I lived in a RV with a son and four dogs three of which were large animals, plus the experiences mentioned above. The only difference it this time that day will really be at the beach that I CHOOSE. 0)~
There are lots things to consider and it is a big jump if
you have never lived on a boat or in a small space before. If you have to be responsible for rebuilding the head is that any thing like rebuilding and installing a toilet? 0)~ or fixing the sink ( see above) or rebuilding the pumps (You got me on that one, I admit I have never rebuilt a pump) not to mention the normal cooking and cleaning that must go on, it is a big job. You need to be as self sufficient as possible. Of course, there are classes you can take from diesel mechanics to how to varnish, paint, or plumb and the like. Not to mention classes on sailing and navigation.
See above
I applaud you for what you are doing! It is not an easy thing. It is not usually an inexpensive thing either although it can be if your aspirations are not so high and you can live at a lower standard of comfort. Only -you- can answer these questions about what you need and want. Think, consider, and choose wisely. You -can- do this, and do it safely, -if- you want to enough. Do you?
Having said all that it boils down to do I want to trade being stuck on the land lubbers hook of living in a small house (1000 sq ft) in a small town in Southwest Oklahoma with all the headaches that entails, like property taxes, utility bills, gas prices, car repair, traffic, house maintenance etc for living in a smaller place about the size of a small to medium RV with complete solar, wind and hydro power, (read that NO utilities except my cell bill and ISP which I pay now), solar oven, heat and hot water, no gas bills, no traffic unless I choose to go into a populated area or shipping lane , no car repair, no heat bills in the winter , no cooling bills in the summer unless I chose to go where it is that hot or cold, and the freedom to basically live on a different kind of hook and go to any part of the globe that I have the chutzpah to sail to any time I want to ?
I don't mean to insult and one and I really hope no one is offended but to me that question is a no brainer. If I had everything done and was able to do it right now, I would be gone so cotton picking fast all any one around here that was not in the loop would know is I'm OUT OF HERE~~~~~~~~~0)~
May your hulls always be solid, May your sails never fail, May your winds always be fair and May you always USE DA GREY MATTER!
July 30, 2010
Started production. One can of the regular spray foam will do 39 water bottles allowing for mistakes where I had to redo an occasional bottle. Was going to use the big gap filler but have to go return the ones I had as they refuse to release foam. The bottles on top did great. When I put the second bottle on each row it had to have some help to stay in place. Used some really old duct tape attached to top bottle . So far they look OK. will see what happens while I'm at store.
The extra money for the big gap variety is not worth the extra one dollar a can in this application.
UPDATE August 4, 2010
The 39 bottles per can of foam is ONLY good for the first row. After that it takes more to accommodate the spaces. It's not practical to use just the spray foam so in the cores so I have adapted the basic plan. Once I make sure the new idea works I'll post some of the details.
July 31, a couple of folks have emailed me and mentioned that doing things on a boat is a lot different then on land. Now that is something I would really love more information about. If anyone wants to email me examples of that type of thing please do. For those who re as green as I am , I will post the information here and we can all learn together.
Accomplished to do list.
Have 4 hull sections started. Three are about 60% done as far as attaching the water bottles. I would have more done but my work table is only so big and as they grew in circumference I had to take one off.
I am amazed at how fast that part is going. It takes longer to let the foam set up then it does to attach the bottles. The only thing is I started using tape to hold in the bottles that wanted to slide out of place instead string. its easier faster and i can reuse the tape sections at least a couple of times if I don't forget to move them in time. I found a use for the large 2 liter bottles . I am going to use then for the corners. To save time and foam I am thinking about laminating foam sheet sections inside the low areas like in fiber glassing. I'm thinking it will be cheaper also.
Ordered tarps. They are due to arrive between the 5th and the 12th. That means there is probably no way this will be ready for boots but what the hey!
Picked up some Thompson's water seal with mildew control for water proofing. I hate not going with the epoxy right off but finances is finances. Is it better to temporarily sacrifice the epoxy job and fancy wood for now and get on the lake or wait til next spring to do this? I figure since the toy is not going to be sitting on the water all the time, I might get a season or two out of using plain old fashioned cheap CDX plywood and some of the 2x4s i have around here. I can redo it later after I get the money saved up. If I do epoxy I want to go with west system. That stuff ain't cheap but I hear nothing but good things about it. Plus I LOVE the tutorials on the web site. Even I should not be able to mess that up. It appears that if you simply read the directions and actually do it the way they say to, it's danged near idiot proof.
Have been researching sailing classes. Turns out there are ASA classes with in a reasonable commute! YIPPEE!!!!! Emails the marina for prices. Keeping my fingers crossed the price is no way out of my budget. Living on less then 700 a month really BITES!
Someone suggested I put a wish list / donation button for pay-pal up and any one that wants to can help. I'm seriously thinking about that.
The topic of what to I want to accomplish with the toy keeps coming up. Here it is folks straight from the horses mouth. The MAIN GOAL of The Toy, as I have started calling it, is for me to simply go have some FUN! Yes I'll get a few clues about rigging since I am going to have to continue to research that one a bit more. Yes I'm going to learn some other things. That is part of it. No, I do not expect to learn a lot of other things that will be useful on a "REAL" boat. I know there is a HUGE difference between various crafts. That's fine. I'm not worried about it. I cannot do it all in one shot, so each area will take it turns same as any other subject. I hope this does not offend any one. Since I'm not sitting on a sailing kitty of thousands of dollars there is no other option. If this offends any one please, buy all means, feel free to donate what ever you think your way would cost and I'll see how close I can come to working your way into my values and lifestyle.
What kind of boat do I eventually want? I'm seriously thinking a 30-40 ft cat. Even though they can be more expensive tn a marina and a lift to the heard I still think that is the way to go. Now granted I might change my mind a hundred times before i make the final decision and am very interested in hearing what other people have to say abut other types of boats.
Searched out some more marinas for crewing. The guys are interested as well so that is three to crew in local area. We are thinking that each on doing this on their own would not be a bad thing as well as when the chance occurs do it together if someone has room. Not a lot with classified sections for this. Here it is folks. Any one in the area between Lawton, Wichita Falls, OKC or Denton areas looking for crew contact me at R-o K]-ed e/M I\A H a ^\ t ya h 0[[0 dot com ( all lower case and connected with out the special characters just letters, of course. sorry about that but we all know about bots harvesting addresses).
I drew this with paint thought I'd throw it in. It's not finished as you can see it does not have the tiller or center board on it. It does give the basic idea.
August 4, 2010
Went scrounging for materials today. Got quite a good haul. The out side of hull section one is getting much closer to being ready to cover with tarps. Am trying square shape for hulls.
Found some foam that is pre-cut and almost perfect as it for tips on bow. All I am going to have to do for shape is trim it down a bit to fit in hole and round off tips.
I probable should have mentioned this earlier. A lot of folks have emailed asking why I do not just build one of the small boats.
I've looked at them. One of the things I want to be able to do is stay out over night anchored on a local lake and sleep on board. With the deck surface area of design I am using I can do that. The idea is throw a tarp and or mosquito netting over the boom after I set anchor and be able to roll out a sleeping bag. Yes. I am planning a set of rails to prevent me from accidentally rolling off the boat while I am asleep.
Went to Walmart to get weight gauge for hulls. Thought I'd take a look at the boat section. I found the portable Bow and stern lights cheaper then the stated price on line, so that's one more thing off the list of "buy it". Still debating which anchor type to get. Need to find out what kind of bottom we have locally.
Broke down and bought a cheap caulking gun. You just know now that I bought a replacement the one we cannot find will show up .
August 4, 2010
General thoughts:
For the last several months I've had this nagging idea that after I get things wrapped up on this end, relocate to the an area with a navigable river. The basic idea is to find someone with some under improved or unimproved land on the navigate able part of the river that I can rent or lease cheap enough and camp out while I find a boat and get it worked on and learn to sail it. It' needs to be far enough North to avoid most of hurricane season, plus being out of the Florida area will be cheaper on insurance.
It is a straight shot of only about 200 Nautical miles to Bermuda from The East Coast, depending on where you leave from. My idea is once the skills are acquired making runs between the two points would be good practice for over night runs. I am also thinking that might be a good place to use as home base for crewing jobs to learn more. It would be good for learning about tides etc. There are National parks on rivers and coastal areas which would be great for taking off from the home base and do a trial run on what do I absolutely need on the boat as far as personal gear and to field test gear, boat and me. Take what I think I am going to need and see how close I come.
A Tip I pulled off a yahoo group.
I was away from my boat for 6-weeks last summer and returned to find my fuel tank had pitted and I had diesel in the bilge. The entire boat smelled like a fuel tank and had been cooking in 95+ temps. I pulled the tank (easy) but the stink remained - Here's the cure:
Mix 1/2 original Listerine with 1/2 white vinegar and spray on everything - bilge, cushions, clothing, bulkheads - EVERYTHING. The boat smells like Listerine for about 24-hours and then presto - no more unwanted smells.
ALSO:
put a small dish of original Listerine just outside your companionway (or spray on your screens) - mosquitoes and no-seeums hate it.
August 10, 2010 It has been suggested in a yahoo group that I NEVER take any one that cannot swim with me. Good advice. I pass this one for other newbies.
I need to clarify something . On the looking to crew aspect of this page for now it is about local day trips or over night trips since we are not ready for going out of area yet.
Sail Dimensions
Taken from a post in a yahoo group
Look at the Bruce number, which is the square root of sail area divided by the cube root of weight. Because Edmond Bruce was American, it is commonly calculated from imperial units, using square feet for the sail area and pounds for the weight. Beach catamarans, ORMA 60 trimarans and the like have Bruce numbers of 2 or more. Cruising monohulls usually have Bruce numbers between 1 and 1.3. You could see how much your catamaran weighs, then calculate which sail area gives you the desired Bruce number.
The Bruce number ignores the righting moment. If you want to take that into account, look up the formula for wind pressure, multiply by a realistic coefficient of lift (I think 1.2 - 1.5, but that is only a vague memory), work out the lever arm between the sail's centre of effort and that of your board, hull and rudder, and calculate at what wind speed your heeling moment equals righting moment. That is much easier for multihulls than monohulls, at least for transverse stability. I read that ORMA 60 trimarans can already get up on one hull in 8 knots true wind (they go so fast they might see nearly 20 knots apparent wind), Wharram writes the Tiki 21 needs 30 knots (I expect that would be apparent wind). The Tiki is a cruiser, the ORMA 60s are all out racers.
If you scaled all dimensions of a design by the same factor, the Bruce number would be the same, but the static stability would be less. The reason is that heeling moment grows with the third power of the scale factor, the righting moment with the fourth power. So if you designed a boat much smaller than the Tiki 21 and wanted it to need as much wind to capsize, you would have to give it proportionally less sail and/or a lower rig.
Time for Plan C
Plan B was working really well until it turned into a king sized pain in the you know where. Time for Plan C. They call it figuring. Most men and a lot of ladies know what I am referring to with anything further being said. For those who do not understand this fine, time honored tradition and absolute necessity of southern engineering, I will explain the basics.
If you have ever seen someone sit for hours, usually in the same general areas as what ever project they are working on or at least have it in they peripheral view and it really looked like they were just goofing off, then all of a sudden they got up and either went to the hardware store or building supply place , then went to work on what ever project they were doing and things went together like clock work , you have witnessed figuring. Some times it happens while fishing or playing a video game. Some times it happens while watching TV. Yeah, I never bought that one either until I started having to deal with all this "men's stuff". I have to admit some of my best ideas have come when I was doing something that had absolutely nothing to do with what ever the project or situation I needed to be working on was.
My Mother used to get so frustrated at my Dad until she figured this out. Ladies what is happening is your husband or significant other is seriously considering how they are going to get this job done given the tools, materials and circumstances they have to work with . They are playing with ideas, eliminating what won't work, or what they do not have the tools or money to do, developing what might work and tearing that down and rebuilding it over and over until they have a definite plan of action. . Yes, this is the same person who may not be able to help your second grader with math or spell any thing with more then 6 letters in it, but in this process whether they know it or not they may be doing post graduate college level calculus, trigonometry, geometry and major engineering applied mathematics all in their head.
Plan B was the right basic idea but the application was literally sideways and backwards in the most literal sense of the word. I was doing this the hard way. Went out today and scrounged some more materials. The problem was I needed glue, nails or something to temporarily hold things in place long enough to set it up to test this latest idea/ design. . Enter the kitchen...... I have some old bamboo skewers that are not doing any thing important except taking up space in my kitchen cabinet. WAH LAH!!! I have nails! What is better is I have REALLY LONG nails that I can custom adjust the length of with a flick of my fingers to break off as needed. It's time to play marine Tetras. All that canned foam may not have been a waste after all. It makes a GREAT pin cushion. 0)~
UPDATE August 6, 2010
Been getting a lot of spam lately. I think it's due to dell. Might be the craigslist ads. If you send me an invite and I do not recognize your name or ID or the subject line does no mention sailing in some form, I ignore it as spam. If you want to add me to your friends list. I'm on face book and yahoo but you have to know what name, send em an email so I know it is coming . PUT YOUR TOY BLOG or something similar in the subject line
Yesterday I spent a LOT of time just reading links and watching videos on line. If you do not know about instructables go look at it! Tim Anderson's post is one of the things you WANT to look at. He includes a post on how he coped with demasting while waiting to collect everything he needed to install a new mast. I have to give it to him sailing his boat with a kite is just so ingenious It also has several post on unorthodox boats that have been made by folks. Its a paid site but worth the cost.
Today I received a link that just out does everything I have ever seen for recycling, boating and sustainability. Read Spiral_Islandthen scroll down to the 7 minute video under external links . My reaction? I WANT ONE! That would be my ultimate dream boat! If the design could just be modified for transatlantic crossings, I would so be going for it. It is definitely food for thought once things are at a point I hope to achieve. The more I think about it, a cat with the right hull length would work. It's a walk in hydroponics garden .
Yesterdays research proved out to be fruitful. I flipped the plan again. I incorporated the PVC jon boat and another video I saw into the design. It is working nicely. You tube and instructables. com has links. Sorry about no pictures for now but I now have a partial hull skeleton made out of PVC enclosing the 4 '' PVC tubing that I foamed the water bottles to sitting on the floor in the living room. I am going to have to take this out side as the living room is going to be to small to continue this part of things. .
To figure out the dimensions I needed I took the information from rebel cats float page and did some math. Taking the volume of a cylinder 15" diameter x 12 inches high give me the volume I need to come up with how much float I had to have per linear foot. It came out to just under a square foot if I calculated this right. That was the easy part. The formula and explanation I jogged my memory with on line. Converting this to a triangle was the hard part at first. For all of those out there who are not a math genius and have forgotten how to convert a round to a triangle ( like me LOL) I printed out some graph paper that I had downloaded form the OpenOffice.org site and marked off a square 12 x 12 and cut it out. Then I folded it into a perfect triangle and cut the fold and flipped the triangles to get my size. My triangle is 24 x 17 x 17. I went to home depot and got enough pipe and fittings to get me started to make sure it will work. This portion of the hull is dry fitted and the water and foam covered lengths of 4 " PVC are inserted. I had to dismantle the long side to get it to fit and tear off a few bottles to accommodate the cross pipes but it looks good. After I line it with all the foam I have been collecting, it will work.
These dimensions provide 76.5 lbs of float per linear foot and me making the water line section of the hull 15 foot long = 1147.5 lbs capacity per hull x 2 = 2295 lbs capacity. At an average of 200 lbs each for the guys and me being way less then that (did you really think I was going to advertise my weight? O)~:) we have no worries on that concern. If we could find the room we could stick another 1800 lbs of gear, sails and rigging on this thing before we have to worry and still have buoyancy. Yes, I forgot to include the weight of the hulls/ boat in this calculation. I do not have that yet, After the thing is made I will go to the junk yard / scrap place and get it weighted.
As it turns out one layer of bottles all around the 4" is all that will fit so that's worked out well I may not be running out of bottles as soon as I thought I was. If I had not found all this foam I was seriously considering using pop cans to fill in . If you seal the opening with silicone they would would float especially when covered and sealed inside something that has been water proofed. I have been told that aluminum will corrode in water but the cans if they were used would not be in direct contact with the water so that should not be a concern, if someone wanted to go that route. Now all I have to do is either dismantle this enough to reassemble it out side OR get one of the guys to volunteer to help me get this out side. Its not THAT heavy but it is bulky and the door and corner arrangements I have to work with are interesting to say the least. Think moving a very skinny and light 10 ft couch and you get the picture.
Went to pick up more fittings. Grabbed a set of craft needles and 80 lb test to sew the foam in place for the sides to hold it while I'm doing the rest of it. Yes, I probably won't ever need that test weight but it was only a buck more so better to over kill they be sorry later since this thing is going to get knocked around a bit in the process of making it. If nothing else it will last longer on the parts that rub up against each other. Also the heavy test weight was chosen so I can use it to sew the tarp over the hulls to hold them in place before the finish is put on.
Smooth seas and fair winds
August 08, 2010
The first hull is outside on the work tables. I have started inserting foam pieces into the gaps. My time is spoke for the next several days but I wanted to get the napkin notes I made the other day uploaded. This is just stuff I scribbled down on napkins but it helps. Sorry about all the dead white space and size, I have not figured out how to crop in Irfanview yet and get it the way I want to .
My son keeps reminding me this is a fair weather boat. That's funny since until I get some skills, I am for now not even qualified as a fair weather sailor, since I have yet to get anything out on the water out side of the 2 man inflatable we had when he was still preschool. ROFLMAO!!!!!
We had an interesting discussion about him building his own boat.
Once I get this hull covered I am seriously thinking about strapping it to the car and taking it and some paddles out to the lake just to see what it does. Alone it should have over 1,100 pounds float capacity, IF I did the math correctly. Time to double check and make sure I remember where I put the PFD's.
PFD's are right where I thought they were. Hopefully by next week end I will have this one finished and we can test it.
The more I work on this the more this hair brained idea keeps tickling my mind. Since this is a fair weather toy, what if I took some small diameter PVC and made the equivalent of a square yurt to strap on top? I don't remember the site off hand but I saw a link where someone made clips out of PVC scraps and help a lateen sail on a PVC frame with nothing but clips. If that can hold the pressure of a sail it should hold tarps to a frame for this. Yes, for the record I have come to the conclusion if I do all this a trailer is going to be needed for any thing other then short hops to the local lake and I may have to two trip that. The up side is I was running across various web site and what do you know I fond all kinds of homemade trailers for boats. Granted they are meant for bikes but, it occurs to me, I could strap the hulls on the roof and make a small light weight trailer to put the "cabin" frames and deck on. If I do that I could make the deck wider, OR I could just save up and get one of those small utility trailers at Tracker supply.
UPDATE August 18, 2010.
I figured out a way to not need a trailer after all, even with the longer and heaver hulls.
Went to see my insurance agent. 100.00 dollars a year for liability. Not bad. Yes I realize if an accident occurred this toy would no doubt take the worse end of it. The reason I'm going to go ahead and do this is to have an established track record for marine insurance later. I read something about how some marine insurance companies do not like newbies. As I upgrade I figure it might help vs being a complete noob for insurance purposes once I get the real boat.
Assuming this expands to the point I do get a trailer that part is covered under my car policy so I'm good to go.
Was reading links, Who knew that kindle and other places let you self publish. That works for me. I've been thinking about a couple of books I want to write. Will they sell, Who knows, But it beats the idea of trying to do desktop publishing on board.
Have decided when I have the solar/ wind / hydro power set up enough to support it I am going to get a portable ice maker.
I have had this thought that hydro seems like the most feasible way to produce electricity on a boat. After all winds die, the sun sets and cloudy days happen, but water under a boat is ALWAYS moving. PVC fins on a PVC shaft that surrounds a shaft to a Low RPM alternator should work. Installing two or more just makes sense. The only glitch I can think of ( and this is not something I have done any calculations on) it would be in a storm. It would need to be something I could pull up and stow really fast in bad weather for blue water use. On a cat since the deck is above water level it seems like it could be set up similar to an outboard that just gets pulled up and lashed down . Would need some sort of quick disconnect on the wires or have them long enough to provide room to move it in a hurry. Could the alternator be wired to a large enough light plug (15 amp or larger? )and make a extension cord type set up to the charge controllers? If it was set to just below the water line it should not affect draft negatively, since the hulls would be lower then the bottom of this device. For that matter it could be set directly behind the hulls with a center rudder placement and the fins below water line. Put a hatch covering on it for removal and maintenance and it should work.
If you have posted comments and they are not showing it is because Google wants me to give them a cell number to text me at. For some reason the voice option never shows when I try to get it taken care of. I'm working on it but have not got that far on my "to do" list.
I have this crazy idea for this winter. I'm seriously thinking about maybe getting the stuff and fiber glassing these hulls just for the heck of it.
UPDATE August 18, 2010
Note to self; MAKE A MODEL AND FIBER GLASS THAT FIRST!!August 18, 2010
Went out on foam run yesterday and got an entire refrigerator box full of Styrofoam pieces from a local rent to on place. It filled the car so I'm good to go on that department for the rest of this hull and a good chunk of the second hull. Picked up another 5 cans of spray foam. Using the Styrofoam makes it easier to fill in the gaps the bottles were creating so I'm using less foam. I'm thinking hull number 2 will be a lot cheaper on the canned foam. I am debating since I have to pick up fittings for hull #2 to go ahead and order the custom fittings online or stick with locally available fittings. I am seriously considering going with the custom fittings and eventually completely redoing hull #1 with those due to fewer joints.
Started a wish list for books on amazon.com. Hopefully pay day after I get boat materials still needed and pay for ASA class next month, I can get started with boat related purchases. Need to download kindle reader to use on PC. Buying all books possible on kindle for space when on board.
Bought heavy duty aluminum foil to "glue" to out side of foam hull between Poly tarp and foam since I do not know what the effect of poly urethane on Styrofoam will be.
Materials list for September
2 -3 sheets CDX plywood, ( yes I know it is not marine grade and will only last a couple of seasons if that. )
polyurethane and brushes
pipe and fittings for deck frame, mast
wood for mast step
wood for tiller , rudder, Center board, bow sprit,
hardware and lines for rigging
anchor(s), chain and rope
Installed donation button at bottom of page just in case any one wants to help sponsor this project. Which brings me to the next point of.........
Why would any one want to build this boat?
The Cons.....
If you have any kind of real wood working, metal fabrication and or fiberglass skills you probably would not want to build this boat, unless you just want a new challenge of something you have never done before.
If you do not care about doing any kind of over niter and just want something that floats for day time fishing trips or sailing, you probably will not want to build this boat. For the same money or less you can probably find something used maybe even with a trailer that does not need expensive repairs.
If you have the tools and wood working skills of even a basic level, you can build a PD racer or any number of fine simple small wood boats. The plans are all over the internet. Some are free with really good diagrams and instruction. PD racer even has a yahoo group for builders. It does not get more user friendly then that, if you have the tools and skills. Under those circumstances you probably would not want to build this boat.
The Pros.....
If however you are like me and do not have a pick up truck or a trailer and do not have access to marine grade ply wood close at hand and live far enough from marine areas that the shipping cost make the price so far beyond your reach that forgetting it unless you want to spend the next couple of years doing nothing but saving for the wood, shipping or the gas to go get it, you might want to consider building this boat.
If your like me and have NO wood working skills beyond basic framing or building a glorified shadow box, and have no tools like a router and no skills to use a router or table saw if someone gave you a brand new one, you might want to consider building this boat.
If you have no metal fabrication skills and no safe place to do fiber glassing even if you knew how to and would not trust a boat that you fiber glassed the hull on your self, you might want to consider building this boat.
If you can measure a straight line you have one of the skills that will help you build this boat.
If you can nest cups or pots and pans into one another, you have another of the skills to build this boat.
If you can use glue you have another of the skills to build this boat.
If you can pack stuff in a box so tight you could not get a flax seed in it with out a sledge hammer and a pic axe or even not so tight, or tetris skills you have a skill to build this boat.
If you have ever done just about any kind of art work in grade school you can probably build this boat.
If you want something large enough to be able to sleep on for you and maybe a couple of other people with gear, while on the hook and even able to have a small tent pitched on it or a convertible yurt/ cabin, and do not want to pay thousands of dollars for it, you might want to consider building this boat.
If you want something that has a low risk of sinking, I think this is a design you might want to consider. The hulls are solid foam except for the recycled water bottles. Even if you got broad sided and one hull broke in half the rest of the hull and the remaining hull should hold you up out of the water enough for a rescue and /or paddle or sail back to shore. Yes the caned insulation foam used is expensive when you add it all up. Any kind of " unsinkable" hull design I have researched on line uses foam or another form of double hull or water tight compartments. All of these are expensive. It boils down to what do you want and what are you willing to spend. The up side as I have said earlier is you can do this design one bit at a time and until you get to the final sealing portion there are no bad repercussions as long as you use some common sense like cover it up to protect the foam from rain, pets and UV rays, etc.
A different logic.
10 foot joints of PVC pipe or even long lengths of lumber can be easily transported with a regular car. I do it all the time. Just make sure it is not longer then your car and you have it tied to enough supports to hold the weight balanced. ( INSERT PIC HERE). On thinner pipes that you can cut reasonably fast with a PVC cutter, if your supplier only carries 20 foot joints of pipe or are out of stock in the 10 ft lengths, do what I do, after you check out take your tape measure and a pipe cutter and simply cut the 20 ft joint down to 10ft. No, they are not going to be happy about you tying up the loading bay but they get paid by the hour so it does not matter if they are waiting on you or standing around waiting on the next customer to show up. If it there are others waiting to load take the pipe over to a different area and do your cutting and tying there.
The rest of the materials carry in a regular bag, with the exception of the recycled Styrofoam which will travel in a car very nicely, hence no transportation worry's. I break down the pieces that are to big to easily fit in the Lumina all the time. If you are going to put the wood cap on the hulls, which I am seriously thinking about doing, you can have most lumber yards cut it down to width and what ever length dimensions for easier transport. Just tie to to the top of your car. I do it all the time. So you might get some odd looks. Trust me on this ladies, those odd looks are going to be the last thing you ever think about when your out on the water.
One part at a time. Do you remember that famous county singers song about how he built a Cadillac one piece at a time and it did not cost him a dime? This is similar. Now your probably not going to get out of buying the canned insulation and the price on that does add up. The best price I found is at Lowe's or Home Depot in buying it by the case. You can scrounge or buy the pipe, fittings , and possibly the tarp. Scrounging the Styrofoam is the easy part if you have furniture stores or rent to own places in your community. Do not buy the canned foam until your ready to use it as if it gets to hot or two cold while being stored, it might not come out of the can. If you want the convenience of just popping into the local building supply store and buying the foam, I suggest the thickest sheets you can afford, depending of course on the depth of your hulls. While your collecting materials you can if you really had to store the 3/ 4" PVC under your couch or bed. Its going to be cut any way so if you had to you could go ahead and just measure it and cut it on one of the marks it will get cut at. Styrofoam can fit under your front porch, in storage or even in trash bags any where you can find a spot or even in the yard if you had to. If your really desperate for a spot tie the bags to a tree if you have one and a yard. The good thing about Styrofoam is as long as no one is messing with it, it will stay put as long as you weigh it down with something. A rock in the bag or box works well.
If you have a place to put it you can get the hulls framed with the PVC and as you collect the Styrofoam and canned foam simply put it in place and let is sit. Cover it up if your not going to be working on it for a while or if rain is in the forecast and your fine. Everything will eventually reacts to UV rays so covering it up makes sense. It will be there when you get back to it. If you do that you can budget so much a paycheck for the canned foam once you get the PVC portion done and you don't have to worry about storing cans of foam since you use them as you buy them then just cover it up until the next batch. It' like an old fashioned lay a way plan only in your own house. Some folks call it in pocket financing. Your getting it done bit by bit and that is what matters. You are actively working on your goal not just talking about it and losing time. By buying and building a bit at a time you get the material now instead of saving up and paying the higher price you know will be there 6 months or a year later after you saved up enough to get it all.
Some more linksHome storage off car top with no trailer and misc sources of inspiration for this boat..
Boat-Cradle-Dolly to roll modules to car and back to yard.
PVC and tarp Jon boat
Next moths choices, Last of season ASA classes or boat materials?????? Tough choice.
see ya next time
happy sails
August 21, 2010
Uploaded a short movie showing partially finished hull on YouTube
May your sailing days always be smooth seas and fair weather.
August 22, 2010.
Not a lot going on boat wise. I've been getting caught up on some other jobs that have been laying around waiting for me to get to them. Getting caught up on the email is one. Wow, who knew I could get that much email in just groups. Reading it has been a good thing though,. I found a link to real marine grade ply wood that will ship to this area, or at least that is what the guy who posted it says, in the interest of sharing the good news and so I don't forget where I saw it when I'm ready to spring for 70.00 a sheet ply wood, I'm positing it here.
Yesterdays weather was typical. We had Oklahoma rain storms. Now for those of you who do not know what that means, I'll tell you. An Oklahoma rain storm is when it is so hot out side that it rains a real frog strangler but nothing hits the ground since the rain drops evaporate before they drop that far. It gets the cloudy skies, the thunder, and lightening, the whole bit but if you see one drop of rain you did good. About all it really does is sometimes it cools things off a bit and or raises the humidity. Yesterdays storm cooled it off a bit, got all the way down to the 80's. Not bad for the last part of August since we normally have 100 degree temps as the norm.
That's all for now,
Fair winds
August 23, 2010
In the back of my mind for about 20 years I keep seeing me doing a trans-ocean trip on my own boat. At first it was transpacific. OK, I fibbed. It was more like coast hugging my way around the north pacific, past Alaska, down past Japan, around India and The horn then up to Europe. I looked at that on Google earth and it seemed like going to the Med and Western Europe area like that was the hard way, especially the horn of Africa. (Back then I dd not know what a challenge doing either horn was.) Then I started thinking about doing the coast hopping thing up the East Coast, across Davis Strait and Baffin Bay, Hebrides, UK to Europe until I joined some yahoo groups and started doing a LOT of online reading. I decided that there really is a BIG difference between chutzpah and being suicidal. Ice bergs as a single hander does not sound like smart move to me. I'm sure there may be folks who have single handed that course but I do not see me doing it. Since dead and sailing are definitely not mutually agreeable activities, that idea went out the window.
A multitude of blogs, yahoo groups and web sites later, the route is East Coast, Bermuda, Azores, Gibraltar and where ever I decide from there. Probably the West Coast of Europe, UK and depending on what time of the year it is the Nordic countries eventually ending up in the Med. I figure I can kill a couple of years doing that real easy.
The original idea was buy a boat, preferably a cat maybe 30 - 40 ft at most and single handing this. Now, I'm thinking maybe 30-35 x 11. That's 8-13 foot longer then my living room and 4ft narrower. The general plan is to run a junq rig with an unstayed mast. Perhaps two mast. Not decided on the dual mast idea yet. I can live with that.
This the part where someone is going to think I have completely lost my mind. That's OK, if I did not know me I'd say the same thing. As far as that goes I'd bet the price of one months web hosting fees my son would agree with them. That's OK, He can stay on land. This is about what MOM wants to do. LOL
The good news is I do not need his permission. ROFLMAO!!!!
I've already mentioned the transatlantic plan. What I have not mentioned is the last several months I have got this nagging voice that backs up this picture in my head of me building a wood or fiberglass cat that is lined on the bottom half of both hulls and the under half of deck/ living quarters with a seriously decent thickness of spray foam enclosed in wood then either epoxied or fiber glassed OR maybe a fiberglass shell filled with the foam. Not sure which yet, it depends on what happens over all. Read an article online written by a guy who sounds like he has been doing this a LOT of years and apparently he is not impressed with the design of the fiberglass hulls for blue water, so I'm leaning towards wood. The trade off of that is wood boats are not so easy to get insured. I keep hearing USBOAT is good for older and wooden boats so that's a starting place to check out when I am ready. Decisions, decisions, decisions......
I've been trying to talk my self out of the idea of building a blue water boat to tell you the truth. The more I try to talk my self out of it, the more it occurs to me I might have the skills after all. Taking a diagram to make a pattern for wood pieces is about the same as making a clothes pattern from a drawing. We did that in home ec during Jr high school. While I am not wood crafter, I know how to run a circular saw and a saber saw for curves. I can cut a straight line. May have to learn how to use a router. Using a hose to define the curved edge of a hull or anything else is not a big deal.
I've been studying the fiberglass tutorials and that does not look as hard as I thought it would be so I'm basically running out of out of excuses to not do this. Some of the folks I've met in the yahoo groups has been feeding me good links etc. The critics and nay sayers have made me think about ideas I never would have considered before and all in all the idea of what I am getting into just keeps firming up so I'm seriously thinking this is doable.
When I think about this I keep coming to the same conclusion. When I first got single 20 years ago sure I had same basic skills that Dad had taught me but nothing that I ever seriously used, except for helping the boys Dad or my Dad. I had a choice, figure it out or do with out, so I learned. How is this any different? It's not like I can't build a box. I mean you would not want to pay big money for a custom cabinet I built, but I can line up corners if I have my corner tool. Whats the worse thing that is going to happen, if I mess up a cut? I buy more wood. At that point, it is not a life and death situation. I'll know it when I do it. Yeah I'll be madder then all heck at me but I'll use the wood for a different part or something different altogether and go get more wood and not repeat the mistake. Measure twice, cut once. Chines I can do. Sew and glue I can do. Filleting and fairing I can do. The skills difference between that and repairing dry wall is not that great. The more I think about it fiber glassing has a LOT in common with taping and mudding dry wall only you have to be a LOT pickier to make absolutely sure the glass is extremely well saturated so you don't get blisters later or leaks now and your pot time and timing between coats is critical if you do not want to have to sand between layers. I'm a woman, I have the skill to be nitpicking on a project such as this.
Have you ever gotten to the point in your life where you just KNEW you were going to do something that would involve introducing something into your life that was absolutely and positively guaranteed to be a giant king sized, exorbitantly, expensive, pain in the seat? Most call that parenting or getting married. I'm there and the really funny part of it is, if you could see my face as I type this, I have one of what my mother used to call my grandfathers ________ grins spreading so wide over my face it might crack if I'm not careful.
It will be expensive, frustrating and if what I read on line is any indication, maddening and if it makes me feel half as good as that partially finished hull out in the back yard does, I'll be having the time of my life doing it.
I'm in.
Note to self. When your ready to kick your own rear end all the way to the moon, don't say I did not warn you.
August 28, 2010.
excerpt from an email sent to me by a friend who has a LOT of experience in this area that reinforces what I have said about NOT using this design for a blue water boat.
my comment: "In the back of my mind I have this idea of reusing the hulls I am working on to build larger hulls."
Their response: "How much larger? If you are thinking about your liveaboard, would you look at the file “Freak Waves.pdf” on http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ayrs/files/Biegler/ first? And do a picture search for “Heavy seas” and the same in youtube."
My response: "Yes, I'm thinking for part of that but if I do it is only going to be just as a recycled part of the internal flotation filling. Do not worry there is NO WAY I would use this design for any thing remotely close to blue water use unless it was just as a part of the frame to fiber glass around and then I think I would put wood around it first, which would go full circle back to my first statement of just using these hulls for flotation fill."
To use this design for blue water with out something SOLID around it to prevent the joints from coming apart is a fools folly! The hulls are to small in diameter and length to even think about taking out into the ocean. That does not begin to cover the fact that no one has ever to my knowledge tested the question of can a PVC glued joint stand up to the stress of ocean tensions. I suspect the continual stress and twisting might do what science has not been able to do and work PVC glued pipe joints apart. If you are going to do that, you may as well just get the wood and or epoxy/ fiber glass and use them instead and save your self a LOT Of money and the extra work. It is way to easy to get plans online and just make a wood or fiber glass boat for ocean sailing.
Am working on the mechanics of blogging so hopefully soon the blog features will work. Having to stop doing what you want to do to learn new software is a king sized pain in the tukus!
The good news. Pay day is just around the corner. I can get more materials and hopefully finish the first hull. There is a messabout with in a reasonable drive this next month and I was hoping to have The Toy ready but it does not look like it is going to be remotely close. Oh well at least I will get to do some sailing!!!!!
Fair Winds to all
Tarp Prep for Hulls
I am using a 20 x 20 wally world el cheapo deluxe trap for this since this is a technically prototype and I don't know for sure how well it is going to work once it is in the water yet.
Take the tarp and fold it in half on the ground or floor. If you can do it inside it is a lot easier and probably won't have to be sprayed down after wards.
I used some brass 3 inch drywall screws to pin the tarp to the ground.
As you can see where there was no grommet I went ahead and screwed the screw through the tarp any way. Am I worried about a leak? No, the tarp is going to be 10 foot wide around each hull so there will be about 2 foot of over lap on each edge that will be firmly glued into place and sealed. The final seam being on top of the hull.
To keep the hole as small as possible I literally screwed the screw into the tarp.
Cutting was just taking a sharp knife and slicing along the edge. Since the ground is not really level this cut is not going to be perfectly straight. I figure with 2 feet of over lap this is not a critical cut.
I was getting a lot of jagged edges so I tried sliding my arm in between the 2 sides of the tarp and reach as far inside as I could, poke the knife through and slice it towards the existing cut. That made things a lot easier.
It's really not that easy to take a pic with one arm under these circumstances but here is a pic that shows the end of this type of a cut. You can see the last cut where the tarp is split.I hope it shows the general idea.
I was using this tarp to cover the unfinished hull so it got really dirty from dragging the ground. I had to rinse it off. Here is a shot of it hanging to dry off before the next step.
pardon the messy yard, I blows a lot here and we had a wind come through last might that spread all my nicely piled foam pieces all over. You can see the other half of the tarp on the work desk waiting for its turn to be sprayed down.
August 30, 2010
Did a test wrap to make sure the cut tarp is going to work the way I want it to for size.
Went out and picked up a tube of GE silicone caulk for bathroom and kitchen since I figure it is for longer term wet applications then the window and door kind and some KRYLON plastic paint to test if it will adhere properly. Smeared some of the silicone on a piece of scrap styrofoam to make sure it will not melt it. So far so good.
Instructions on the can of spray paint is VERY tiny. I noticed it says to gently wipe unweathered materials with mineral spirits before painting so I did just to make absolutely sure I get the best possible bond. Maybe all this extra work for a temporary cover is over kill to some considering I am definitely decided to fiber glass once the sailing season is over. I'm being picky because i want this thing to work.
Speaking of fiber glass, I am in all probability going to use three systems fiber glass instead of west.
Side note:
Got a response from web hoster. I have more the one domain here and according to them you cannot put a alternative URL in anything but my original domain so I am going to have to move this blog to some place else. Will deal with that later, first priority is get The Toy done as much as is possible. Stuff like that can wait until I have shot the boat budget for this month and gone as far as I can go until next month.
Back to boat
Went out and tested the silicone and plastic paint I applied last night. For the record I bought new just to make sure product age was not a factor in this test.
The GE Silicone peeled right off of the cheap poly tarps from walli world, with an extremely small amount of pressure. All I did was lightly rub my thumb against it and it rolled right off.
Styrofoam is fine the next morning. No melting of foam from silicone.
Here you can see where the silicone is lifted from the surface of the tarp after a light rub with my thumb.
The Krylon paint for plastics I got at walliw world looks great. I did a GENTLE rub test and it flakes off.
It looks great at first but........
Just to cross test on the paint, I put three spots on with out the mineral spirits applied to the area first. One spot was sort of heavy. One spot was medium and one spot was just the lightest possible coat to see if I get similar results after it dries.
Its not a big deal but I am kind of hoping to not have to pick between the brown or green side of this tarp for hull color even just for the rest of this season. Oh well, better i found out now instead of after I spent money on silicone and paint only to have to take it back.
Its official not fiber glassing this baby is NOT an option. I have been trying to think of a SUPER SIMPLE test/ practice project I can do with the fiber glass materials that won't waste product. Since fiber glass and styrofoam are compatible I think I am going to make a storage box by fiber glassing around one of these large styrofoam squares. I saw a tutorial on the three systems site I THINK on how to melt the foam so it leaves. I'm wanting to say acetone does it. Need to double check to be sure on the foam solvent.
The lid is (I THINK) going to be made over a flatter square cut to be just maybe 1/2 inch larger to fit over the box. If need be a rubber gasket, probably made out of a bike inner tube, would seal it or I can just use it around the house where a water tight fit is no big deal.
Fiber glass Materials
This started out being my notes on where I am going to buy the various materials at but it is turning into a
price comparison between the System 3 MSRP and Duckworks, with notes on other places I find materials and supplies needed at a decent price. This did not start out to be a comparison but it sure turned into one when I saw the MSRP of this epoxy. LOL I think at these MSRP maybe System 3 does not want to actually sale just make this stuff but who knows maybe I am wrong.......
per hull
IN process of redoing math ~~~~
I'm figuring 20 ft or 7 yards of 60 inch 6 oz cloth per hull since I have to allow for the extra length on the sterns and the extra in the curve on the bows. 21 ft x 5ft = 105 sq ft per hull plus 1 extra sq yd for stern ( just to make sure I don't run out.) = 211 sq ft to cover both hulls. I will use the extra foot of 60" cloth to make over lap on top where the two sides meet since the outside of the hulls will be just a hair over the 60 inches width of the cloth or get tape for that part. 15 yards @ 12.70 a yard. 190.50 USD plus shipping for cloth OUCH!! Yeah this has to wait a month or two or I can forget sailing this season completely.
The 10 ox cloth is only a buck more per yard. so I'm thinking why not until I see it is only in 50" width.
I'm looking at bi axial tape. I'm going to have to do tape to make the seam line meet. NO way around it for these dimensions. It occurs to me if I go with the heavy 24 oz tape with mat instead of have the seam on top I could put tape with mat on the keel line for more strength since the keel is going to get abuse loading and unloading and not have a seam around the uprights on top.
Measured keel line. It is approximately 19 ft from tip of bow along bottom to stern and stern is approximately 18 inches deep. Did this single handed so this is not a detailed are extremely accurate measurement but is close enough to get general idea.
Over all length of hull is about 17-18 ft more or less. The 20 ft length of tarp is a very close fit so I buy that as a fair decent approximation.
If I get 42 ft of tape, (I want to run it up the stern to at least the back pipe.) for the keel line and an extra 3 ft for each stern, I'm looking at 48 ft ( 16 yards) of tape @ 4.55 a yard = 72.80. Plus 190.50 = 263.30 plus shipping before I buy any epoxy.
If I had gone with a hollow hull I would have that paid for by now. OH well, Momma said there would be days like this.. I'm still glad i went with the
foamed core so its still ALL GOOD. I know the odds of this craft sinking are so slim it would take a major thing ( read that act of The Almighty) for it to
sink before i could get back to shore so it is worth it.
Had a brief pause while bravenet updated, Noticed Earl is raising hobbs in Caribbean. note to self do not wait to leave for Med during late summer months!
Back to fiber glass cost
Coverage
coverage per gal of epoxy 6 oz cloth first coat 130 sq ft. need a bit under 1 gal for first coat per hull. Subsequent coats 1 gal should do second and third coat. Roughly 2 gal per hull, not allowing for tape at 32 sq ft per gal. Add an extra gal for tape for both hulls. The left over from cloth should make up extra needed for first coat. NO wonder boats are really expensive if you by one ready made! Going with the 5" tape to cut cost of epoxy on that. Am planning on a keel protector any way so its a trade off. Decisions have to be made.
16 yards of 5" @2.85 is 45.60. Thought about using the 24 oz mated tape for over lap and use it on bottom. There's almost a 30 dollar difference over the 24 oz tape. NEW Running total 236.10 plus shipping.
Duck works has 6" wide 12 oz tape @ 1.45 per yard= 23.20. Guess where I am NOT buying the tape at. take another 22.40 off running total see below
figure 2 1/2 gal per hull including tape.
first coat for wetting properties is clear coat. 182.00 for 1 1/2 gal ( will cover first hull and part of second.) MSRP
silver tip is 90.00 a gal. MSRP. clear coat is supposed to be easier wetting but....... If I go with 5 gal of silver tip its 580.00 and that should be enough to do both hulls vs. clear coat and silver tip which is 728.00.
Argument is silver tip covers weave of cloth better vs clear coat wets better. If I take my time and make sure every one understands the DO NOT DISTURB me while I am doing this, I should be OK with the Silver tip, which apparently is specifically made for marine applications.
Hardener is 285.00 for 2 1/2 . Hardener for both hulls. MSRP
running total
236. 10 cloth and tape 400 5 gal silver tip
285 2 1/2 gal hardener
______
921.10 plus shipping
good thing I don' t have to come up with all this at once and that it has a decent shelf life.
Have to cut this price tag. Checked duckworks cost for for 7.5 gal kit is 664.50 including shipping.
Total for tape and 6 gal epoxy kit at duckworks with shipping
532.50. Reason for 6 gallon kit is they do not sell a 5 gal kit.
MSRP for 5 gal with hardener is 685.00 plus ship. Guess where I'm buying mine. I can use the extra deck.
Duckworks does not have the 60 inch cloth, oh well I guess you can't have every thing the way you want it some days.
If anyone knows of a place for cheaper cloth let me know.
15 yards @ 12.70 for 6 oz 60 " wide MSRP = 190.50 + 703.00 materials at duckworks 893.50 a whopping 470.60 price deference which in this house is almost a months income. I notice they take paypal and have gift certificates. I guess unless I find a better deal I'm going to be buying a lot of gift certs or maybe some prepaid visa cards for a while.
Found 60 " 6 OZ for 6.35 yard by the yard at http://stores.infinityfrp.com/-strse-FIBERGLASS-cln-Fiberglass-Cloth-cln-6-ounce-60%22-width/Categories.bok
If you buy the whole 125 yd roll it is 4.00 a yard.
Mustard pumps
duck works is significantly cheaper by about 20 %
plastic 1 qt tubs MSRP 2.00 each
mixing sticks 16.75 MSRP , probably go ahead and get a case since son is talking about building his own. Checked at hobby lobby. Box of 150 popcycle sticks 1.99. Box of 1000 pop cycle sticks 3.47. Someone is definitely making a dollar off selling those things I can tell you. Bet you know where I'm buying mine.
Taste test
While we were at wally world I found that freeze dried neopolitan ice cream. It's not bad. Takes some getting used to. lets face it I am not use to ice cream that crunches in your mouth. If however, you let it just kind of sit on your tongue and melt, its pretty OK for a change of pace. The chocolate is best but that is just me. Always did like chocolate. the strawberry's not bad but it is never going to compete with braum's or bryer's on a Sunday after noon on your porch, but then its not meant to. Think I'll plan on taking some along. About 5 maybe 10 minutes later am noticing a bit of an after taste, nothing bad just aware of it.
Speaking of food. I've been figuring out what I want to do for provisions. MRE's seem logical choice at least for back up or bad weather food or those days when everything has just gone straight to hobbs in a hand basket. No extra weight from cans. Cooking is easy. NO need for cooking fuel if you either eat them cold or use heaters. NO worries about rust. Down side is heaters are one use and they do create trash. I'm thinking since they are a dark green they might heat up if you just left them in the sun or painted a small pot black and left them inside for a while. Maybe 30 minutes or so. I'd put a hot pad under them to protect plastic covering. Not tested this yet but that is the working theory.
Fair Winds
end of copy from other site
