From Original Site
This is my blog on how I plan to build a dream. Sailing can be VERY expensive. I believe with enough determination, planning, research and commitment, it can be done. I've had some say this is a non workable plan. For blue water off shore sailing I suspect they are right. The hulls with this design are not IMHO suitable for off shore.
For messing about on a small lake like we have around here, I believe this will work. For shore hugging coastal sailing I THINK it MIGHT work.
As far as it not working, I'm from St Louis, home of the Arch. They said that was an unworkable idea also. After 40 some years it is still standing just exactly like it originally did.
Currently I am landlocked in the south west part of Oklahoma USA and have to get some other stuff dealt with before I can actually hit the ocean. In the mean while we have several lakes in the area. For now the immediate goal for "The Toy" is to continue to collect parts, then build something that resembles a catamaran to use on local lakes to learn the basics. The budget is your basic shoe string but what the heck, its still doable, It just requires creativity. It would not be the first time the impossible got done. Time has a way of showing how what seems to be impossible can be done.
I figure if they can do it, I can, at least for local sailing on a nice small man made lake here in the Midwest. I would NOT EVER try this toy in off shore blue water. The hulls are way to small in diameter and it is NOT designed to be structurally sound in my opinion for any thing remotely close to ocean conditions.
Yes, I thought about making this and expanding the hulls for off shore use. I have this idea that is the hulls were reinforced, solid wood doweling that has been epoxied and inserted as reinforcement inside of the pipes etc, then extra layers of foam and bottles could be applied to enlarge hulls to a safe size. I have no way to test this. If any one has some comments or alternative ideas on that I'd love to hear them.
Originally I really wanted to do a modified version of the 15" PVC on Rebel cat but.....
1.The price and shipping on over sized PVC to this "small town " is outrageous. (Read over sized as any thing bigger then 4".) Saving the bottles from all the bottled water we drink around here suddenly became a VERY attractive. The basic concept on construction is get 4 " PVC pipe to use as a structural core and glue the bottles around it to get enough float. That should avoid the "waist" issues the guys on the junk raft encountered. Let's face it tying up a bunch of empty bottles in a net with nothing else for shape is going to have at least one issue.
General Criteria for the boat
This boat needs to be able to fit on top of my 1990 Chevy Lumina for transport. NO TRAILER! The Rebel cat design is modular so that covers that need. It will break down for being re- assembled and un-assembled at the lake, with each section being light/ small enough for me to lift and remove from roof of car with out help.
2. Needs to have something of a decent size for one and possibly 3 adults. What can I say I have two roomies, my adult son and his best friend. You KNOW they are going to want to help test this toy after it is made. I can hear it now... Mom, can I borrow the keys to the boat? ........ Mom, did you hear me?...... Mom, are you here?...... 0)~
Solutions
To have enough float I'm thinking start out with 24' O.D. around each hull.
UPDATE on the shape!
July 31, 2010
Instead of doing round, I think I'm going to go for a more triangular shape The idea is I can make solar panels to fit the width of the top of the hulls and solve the issue of them facing away from the sun. The theory is no matter which way the sun is at least some sun should hit that side, except of course for where the sail makes shade. Also the thought occurs I can maybe put small spots for light storage or the equivalent of drink cup spots.
UPDATE ! The idea of molded in storage in hull tops is canceled.
What kind of glue to use is an unanswered question. Am thinking about testing regular PVC glue first, If that does not work get out the hot glue gun and see what it does. For extra safety to make sure it does not all fall apart once it is on the water, I plan to put some sort of netting around the whole thing.
To increase float the idea of using the foam in a can between bottles and paint the entire thing with marine grade paint or wrap it with the bathroom plastic wall board and fasten it with screws and glue, then paint with a suitable marine grade paint.
Basic plan is use 2- 10 ft sections on each side, glue a union to one section and use rubber washers and bolts to hold each side together for on water. Do a dry fit before I fasten the first row of bottles to the second section to get them placed so there are no gaps or waist in mid section of hull.
Have each section fasten to deck by 2" PVC inserted/ glued to 2x4x4 "t"s at each end and maybe mid sections that go up and cross over to deck area. Since this has to fit on top of car, use a sheet of fiber glassed or heavily epoxied marine grade ply wood that will be bolted on top of PVC frame, with same design as hull to fasten the two sides together. ( Union and bolts with rubber washers mid frame) . Thanks to who ever it was that showed on line how to drill out holes to put epoxy in to protect that area of wood.
Am considering using that same plastic wall covering they use for bathrooms to make cones. Not sure, the junk boat guys did not have any cones so I'm wondering is that really needed?
Sails:
for original sail I'm thinking a blue tarp due to ease of availability and price. If I really mess this up they are cheap enough it won't break the bank to get another. That also has the advantage of being cheap enough for me to play with different ideas, Junq or traditional? Triangle mainsail or a square or rectangle yard arm style ? Lateen?
Regardless the rigging has to be set up for single handed sailing. With a beam of 8 to 12 feet maximum there is not a lot of room for crew.
UPDATE: Some one was nice enough to point out to me the rebel cat is made with thin wall PVC, not the Schedule 40 as I had posted earlier. I'm going to stay with the Schedule 40 for the simple reason its easy to find almost any kind of fitting I want to use locally. I have never seen a hardware store that did not stock the parts I need for the basic design I'm working on.
It's thicker and I'm definitely into over kill for the structural strength considering this is the first time I have done any thing like this. This decision is based on my gut. I don't have an explanation other then that but not going with the gut has always been a bad idea so.......
estimated materials for hull:
4-10 ft joints 4" PVC,
8- ?x4x4 T's
the end caps that screw together instead of unions for extension and a plug for each side
an as yet undetermined length of 2" PVC and fixtures
glue and primer or hot gun and glue
wood 4x4 or 2x4 have not decided yet.
ply wood
string to hold bottles in place while foam dries
mast
wires/cables for fore stay and back stay
Skills required so far:
cut and glue PVC
tetris skills (assemble bottles to fit around pipe)
July 29, 2010
I went to check out marine grade paints yesterday. This I'm going to have to do on line. None available here unless I check the Marina supply. Last time I went in there I learned they are VERY PROUD of their merchandise so that is probably NOT going to be an supply option. Have to do some comparative shopping.
Tried the PVC glue and super glue . Neither worked.
Do I really need glue?
Update August 18. 2010 Elmer's white glue works great for Styrofoam to Styrofoam gluing. Have no idea how it would hold up if it gets wet but since this is inside of hull I'm not planing on it getting wet. If it does, I need to redo hull any way so it will be a moot point.
Made the decision to just use the foam which sticks to both quite nicely while it is drying to hold things in place. I'm planning on wrapping the hulls any way so glue is not really needed for this part. In test of just connecting the pipe and bottle, once it dries as long as you don't knock it against any thing hard it holds very well. Using the plan I have in mind this will work great!
UPDATE August 18, 2010
The canned insulation foam works GREAT on gluing the recycled foam together and has the added advantage of filling i the gaps.
July 30, 2010
Mast
Been reading all night. The mast for now is going to be fast and dirty. 2 " or 3" PVC mast with dowel insert coming up through deck with mast connected under deck into PVC cross beam between hulls.
Update August 18, 2010 It has been suggested to search for a used wind surfer sail mast.
Hull Covers:
Back to Rule 1: KISS Keep It Super Simple
It appears that West Epoxy systems will work with polyurethane foam. For now I'm just going to wrap the hulls with poly tarp, lash or sew them together at the top and maybe coat it with some type of water proofing. Later if I get really energetic and after I'm sure this will work like I think it will, I'll start seriously looking at either a plain epoxy coat or maybe even get really brave and do a miniature version of a hull to experiment with fiber glassing this.
Misc thought; Check out to see if the Voc tech school has a fiber glassing class I can have that done at.
While I am at it check to see if schools have wood shops and would do a hollow mast. Other potential option, would a Tepee pole work?
Up Close and Personal
I keep getting the same types of questions in emails from various folks, so to save me retyping the same answers I'm going to include a bit about my self and post a few of the emails here as well as my response. I have the impression people are drastically concerned that I really do not have a clue what I am getting into and are basically really concerned OR they think I have to be out of my mind to even be considering this. I've been studying up on this on one level or another, for years . Granted book learning is not nearly as good as doing it but hey we all had to start somewhere.
If I sound like a real hard hearted Hannah please, forgive me. I've been up all night researching this while the house is quiet. I really am a marshmallow inside once you get to know me.
My Logic
No matter what any one does we all have great days and learning days. Why would life on a boat be any different? Chores and the unexpected happen. Landlocked or live aboard that's not going to change. To a certain extent we do get to pick what kind of chores we are responsible for and where we do those chores at and what kind of dwelling we call home. If I break down in the middle of an ocean, I'll simply do what every one else has to, I will find a way to figure it out. I've been doing that for 30 years, why should being on a boat be different? The absolute worse that can happen is I drown. Now while that is not something I want to think about, the bottom line is, if my time is up, its up. I can die landlocked as well so where I am is not a big deal to me. The only difference in that is no one has to pay to bury me. If they want a wake great, do it at someone's house and save the fee of renting a room. I promise, I won't care. What am I supposed to do sit on land and never do something I really want to do over being afraid it will have rough spots? I am not made that way.
The Woman behind the wrench
I am definitely NOT your typical high maintenance woman who has a fit over a broken nail. I don't do make up or manicures. Who has time? The last time I polished my nails was maybe 15- 20 years ago. If I put something on my face it will be soap and water to get the dirt off not put a foreign substance into my system and pay for the privilege. Other then that just some cream. Seriously how many of you ladies have poked your self in the eye putting on mascara? How many chemicals are in that stuff and it goes by our eyes? NO thank you. I used to do that but no more. .
Short of it being putrid green, taxi cab yellow or some really gross color, I don't care what color my car is as long as it runs right. I don't give a hoot what label is in my clothes as long as they are clean and fit me. My standard dress is jeans or cotton pants and a 100% cotton (preferably organic) t shirt in the summer or jeans and a long sleeve shirt with long johns in the winter, although I do clean up real nice in a dress.
I've spent the last 20 years learning what I can live with out and be perfectly happy. After I get some other things done I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on that one. I know more ways to not spend money on things we all think we need to survive then I want to remember. Come to think about it that would be a great live aboard income with the right publisher.
When my sons were preschool we camped out on raw land while building a house in a small camper 20 miles from town while their dad was off driving a rig to make a living. I literally cooked their meals over a camp fire, because the RV he borrowed was almost completely stripped out. It was however shelter. My standard, bare boned basic first aid kit for non town living has to be contained in a medium to large ice chest. We hauled our water in in milk jugs before we got the well put in for well over 2 years. When we finally got "indoor plumbing" for quite a while it was literally a garden hose ran from the pump to the kitchen or from the pump to a hot water tank on cinder blocks that we built a fire under with another garden hose ran to the kitchen to do dishes and take baths with. Remember the old westerns where they used a tub in the kitchen by the fire to bathe? Been there, done that, washed both sons and my self like that.
I know how to build and properly maintain and use an out house and a porta potty and make a emergency no sewer or porta potty available toilet. Yes, I know how to fix a regular one as well. While my credentials are outdated I've got First response, EMT, CA and GA training. I've survived a broken neck and living in an economically depressed area as single mother in a small town with extremely limited resources under circumstances that would put most in the nut house or on drugs or booze, with no family to count on for over 20 years, yet me and my family are clean and sober. I am not dependent on doctors since I use herbs for everything from a belly ache ( think sea sickness) to third degree burns ( yes I have a scar where I missed applying the herbs to prove that one.).
I've been doing my own honey does as a home owner for twenty years.
Computer repair, Plumbing , sewer lines, electrical, painting , framing, installing dry wall, insulation, gas lines, auto maintenance, yard work, landscaping, I tore out every interior wall in my house and installed insulation by my self. According to the gas company before we switched to wood heat I had the cheapest gas bill in town of 90.00 for the coldest month that winter, ( 2002?) tore out the broken antique through the wall heater that kicked in every 5 minutes and installed a new vent less. Installed a second vent less in the back of house. Tore out my kitchen to remodel, replaced every water line in this house. Replaced a gas hot water heater that was not working properly for a new energy efficient fast recovery electric. Replaced and moved a bath room, installed a second bath room. Lets see what else can I think of...... I won't need diesel classes since I will be totally electric all the way down to the outboards. Since I build the entire electrical system my self I already will know how to fix it. Having spare parts on hand I'd do any way.
I had my DOT's 30 years ago when most women in a rig were not a licensed driver. Did I mention I was in the top 5% Nation wide for girls, top 10% nation wide for both genders in the ASVAB in the field of mechanics? Also I know more ways to seal cracks around doors and windows using what ever is handy to save on the caulk and make it look good, than I want to remember. Plus I know how to cook, clean, can food, dry food, build and use use a solar food dryer, solar cooker, sew, mend, patch. Spin, quilt and even do my own laundry with or without a scrub board and a clothes line if needed. I know how to get another 50 to 100 miles down the road with a broken fan belt at night ( no alternator). My 16 drawer Craftsman tool chest that I will be putting up for sale makes a lot of men cry and my daddy made sure I was not scared of a tool box or its contents when I was 12.
I have also raised a son I am especially proud of.
Trust me on this, when it comes to sailing OK, I openly admit it, I'm as green as any stick in the woods, but honestly folks, I REALLY DO have the rest of this MORE THEN covered.
I chose these emails since they represent is the best example of the questions I have been getting., instead of posting a lot of smaller ones.
--- On Thu, 7/29/10, ****** wrote:
From: ******
Subject: RE: ****** New member
To: "Use Da Grey Matter"
Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 7:00 PM
****,
I took a quick look at your blog page. Quick because we have less than great Internet access. I have some questions I don't expect you to answer to me but to just think about for you. Think of them as thought provokers and -not- as negatives or positives or directives or must do's.
1. If you want to learn to sail, why are you spending your time building? First you have to build (spend money & time) and then learn to sail (more time & effort if not money).
Circumstances beyond my control dictate I do it this way. The closet sailing lessons require a commute that I cannot swing for a while.
2. Building will help you fix your ocean boat. But, your
ocean boat will be different materials and configuration. How applicable will this current experience be on your ocean boat?
I'll learn a lot about boats in general that I don't know now. Why would I want to wait to learn this stuff until I have a larger boat and the ocean to deal with when I do not have to ? Think baby steps.
3. Buying a "sabot" should be inexpensive and will teach
you how to sail. It's not a multi-hull but it is small and car toppable. There are similar multi-hulls out there and other monohulls too.
Compare cost in time and money of buying small to learn vs build and then learn.
never heard of those. plus see answers 1 and 2.
4. Find a "learn to sail" class at your local lake/town/college. Should be available and inexpensive. Failing that, check out the local "yacht clubs". They often have classes and look for crew on small race boats. Racing with a calm, knowledgeable skipper/owner (look for a
woman if possible) will teach you a lot.
already have that researched and lined up more or less. See answer 1.
5. Emptying your "nest"? How old is your adult son and his best friend? How long have they lived there? Do they go to school? Why is the best friend living there? Where are his parents and maybe they could go live with them? Do they have jobs? Are they likely to have jobs soon or ever? Get the picture? You may find it necessary to give them a gentle shove out the door by moving someplace where they can't go or aren't welcome long term.
extenuating circumstances
Maybe you move to a studio apartment? In fact, a
-small- studio apartment would give -you- a much better idea of how it is to live in the small confines of a small boat. Find a 250 sq ft studio with bath or maybe 300 sq ft. The smaller the boat.... Plus, it -might- save you some cash in the short run.
My house is paid for. Why would I want to pay rent? Counter productive at present. See comments about previous RV living on two separate occasions.
6. Once you learn to sail and decide to make that your
home, unless you are going to stay on the lake forever, you will need to move to the ocean side of the world. That will cost money. From there, you can shop more easily and buy the boat that you want/need. Costs
still more money. Will you work from home or find a job to support yourself in the new place?
I already have that figured into this.
7. When you start looking seriously at boats, look at as many as you can. If you are looking at fixers on the lowest price scale, look there first. Can you -really- afford to buy that 1k USDA boat knowing that to make it livable you must put in another 10 or 20k USDA? What about the slip rent you will need to pay plus the utilities or the dry storage rent? Would a 10k USDA boat that you can put another 10k USDA into be better for you since you could take less time and work to do the work necessary? Cash available vs time available vs benefit to you. If it takes 20k USDA to do it all and it takes you 5 years to do it, is that more cost/benefit than the 10k to buy and 10k to fix and only take 2.5 years? Is buying a ready to go except for minor mods better for you at 20k and 6 months to bring it up to par for you? These are things you might want to decide. You know your financial condition, skill set to do these things, your potential to work wherever you need to move to, etc.
From: ******
Subject: RE: ****** New member
To: "Use Da Grey Matter"
Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 7:00 PM
****,
I took a quick look at your blog page. Quick because we have less than great Internet access. I have some questions I don't expect you to answer to me but to just think about for you. Think of them as thought provokers and -not- as negatives or positives or directives or must do's.
1. If you want to learn to sail, why are you spending your time building? First you have to build (spend money & time) and then learn to sail (more time & effort if not money).
Circumstances beyond my control dictate I do it this way. The closet sailing lessons require a commute that I cannot swing for a while.
2. Building will help you fix your ocean boat. But, your
ocean boat will be different materials and configuration. How applicable will this current experience be on your ocean boat?
I'll learn a lot about boats in general that I don't know now. Why would I want to wait to learn this stuff until I have a larger boat and the ocean to deal with when I do not have to ? Think baby steps.
3. Buying a "sabot" should be inexpensive and will teach
you how to sail. It's not a multi-hull but it is small and car toppable. There are similar multi-hulls out there and other monohulls too.
Compare cost in time and money of buying small to learn vs build and then learn.
never heard of those. plus see answers 1 and 2.
4. Find a "learn to sail" class at your local lake/town/college. Should be available and inexpensive. Failing that, check out the local "yacht clubs". They often have classes and look for crew on small race boats. Racing with a calm, knowledgeable skipper/owner (look for a
woman if possible) will teach you a lot.
already have that researched and lined up more or less. See answer 1.
5. Emptying your "nest"? How old is your adult son and his best friend? How long have they lived there? Do they go to school? Why is the best friend living there? Where are his parents and maybe they could go live with them? Do they have jobs? Are they likely to have jobs soon or ever? Get the picture? You may find it necessary to give them a gentle shove out the door by moving someplace where they can't go or aren't welcome long term.
extenuating circumstances
Maybe you move to a studio apartment? In fact, a
-small- studio apartment would give -you- a much better idea of how it is to live in the small confines of a small boat. Find a 250 sq ft studio with bath or maybe 300 sq ft. The smaller the boat.... Plus, it -might- save you some cash in the short run.
My house is paid for. Why would I want to pay rent? Counter productive at present. See comments about previous RV living on two separate occasions.
6. Once you learn to sail and decide to make that your
home, unless you are going to stay on the lake forever, you will need to move to the ocean side of the world. That will cost money. From there, you can shop more easily and buy the boat that you want/need. Costs
still more money. Will you work from home or find a job to support yourself in the new place?
I already have that figured into this.
7. When you start looking seriously at boats, look at as many as you can. If you are looking at fixers on the lowest price scale, look there first. Can you -really- afford to buy that 1k USDA boat knowing that to make it livable you must put in another 10 or 20k USDA? What about the slip rent you will need to pay plus the utilities or the dry storage rent? Would a 10k USDA boat that you can put another 10k USDA into be better for you since you could take less time and work to do the work necessary? Cash available vs time available vs benefit to you. If it takes 20k USDA to do it all and it takes you 5 years to do it, is that more cost/benefit than the 10k to buy and 10k to fix and only take 2.5 years? Is buying a ready to go except for minor mods better for you at 20k and 6 months to bring it up to par for you? These are things you might want to decide. You know your financial condition, skill set to do these things, your potential to work wherever you need to move to, etc.
Think & consider.
already have but thanks for your concern
8. If you were to buy your ocean boat and move aboard and then rebuild while you live there, would you be happy living in a construction zone for months and maybe a few years? Could you support a "work
wardrobe" in that mess if you worked at an outside job?
Been there done that, for most of the last 30 years of my life as a matter of fact, so this is just another day at the beach. I lived in a RV with a son and four dogs three of which were large animals, plus the experiences mentioned above. The only difference it this time that day will really be at the beach that I CHOOSE. 0)~
There are lots things to consider and it is a big jump if
you have never lived on a boat or in a small space before. If you have to be responsible for rebuilding the head is that any thing like rebuilding and installing a toilet? 0)~ or fixing the sink ( see above) or rebuilding the pumps (You got me on that one, I admit I have never rebuilt a pump) not to mention the normal cooking and cleaning that must go on, it is a big job. You need to be as self sufficient as possible. Of course, there are classes you can take from diesel mechanics to how to varnish, paint, or plumb and the like. Not to mention classes on sailing and navigation.
See above
I applaud you for what you are doing! It is not an easy thing. It is not usually an inexpensive thing either although it can be if your aspirations are not so high and you can live at a lower standard of comfort. Only -you- can answer these questions about what you need and want. Think, consider, and choose wisely. You -can- do this, and do it safely, -if- you want to enough. Do you?
already have but thanks for your concern
8. If you were to buy your ocean boat and move aboard and then rebuild while you live there, would you be happy living in a construction zone for months and maybe a few years? Could you support a "work
wardrobe" in that mess if you worked at an outside job?
Been there done that, for most of the last 30 years of my life as a matter of fact, so this is just another day at the beach. I lived in a RV with a son and four dogs three of which were large animals, plus the experiences mentioned above. The only difference it this time that day will really be at the beach that I CHOOSE. 0)~
There are lots things to consider and it is a big jump if
you have never lived on a boat or in a small space before. If you have to be responsible for rebuilding the head is that any thing like rebuilding and installing a toilet? 0)~ or fixing the sink ( see above) or rebuilding the pumps (You got me on that one, I admit I have never rebuilt a pump) not to mention the normal cooking and cleaning that must go on, it is a big job. You need to be as self sufficient as possible. Of course, there are classes you can take from diesel mechanics to how to varnish, paint, or plumb and the like. Not to mention classes on sailing and navigation.
See above
I applaud you for what you are doing! It is not an easy thing. It is not usually an inexpensive thing either although it can be if your aspirations are not so high and you can live at a lower standard of comfort. Only -you- can answer these questions about what you need and want. Think, consider, and choose wisely. You -can- do this, and do it safely, -if- you want to enough. Do you?
Having said all that it boils down to do I want to trade being stuck on the land lubbers hook of living in a small house (1000 sq ft) in a small town in Southwest Oklahoma with all the headaches that entails, like property taxes, utility bills, gas prices, car repair, traffic, house maintenance etc for living in a smaller place about the size of a small to medium RV with complete solar, wind and hydro power, (read that NO utilities except my cell bill and ISP which I pay now), solar oven, heat and hot water, no gas bills, no traffic unless I choose to go into a populated area or shipping lane , no car repair, no heat bills in the winter , no cooling bills in the summer unless I chose to go where it is that hot or cold, and the freedom to basically live on a different kind of hook and go to any part of the globe that I have the chutzpah to sail to any time I want to ?
I don't mean to insult and one and I really hope no one is offended but to me that question is a no brainer. If I had everything done and was able to do it right now, I would be gone so cotton picking fast all any one around here that was not in the loop would know is I'm OUT OF HERE~~~~~~~~~0)~
May your hulls always be solid, May your sails never fail, May your winds always be fair and May you always USE DA GREY MATTER!
July 30, 2010
Started production. One can of the regular spray foam will do 39 water bottles allowing for mistakes where I had to redo an occasional bottle. Was going to use the big gap filler but have to go return the ones I had as they refuse to release foam. The bottles on top did great. When I put the second bottle on each row it had to have some help to stay in place. Used some really old duct tape attached to top bottle . So far they look OK. will see what happens while I'm at store.
The extra money for the big gap variety is not worth the extra one dollar a can in this application.
The 39 bottles per can of foam is ONLY good for the first row. After that it takes more to accommodate the spaces. It's not practical to use just the spray foam so in the cores so I have adapted the basic plan. Once I make sure the new idea works I'll post some of the details.
July 31, a couple of folks have emailed me and mentioned that doing things on a boat is a lot different then on land. Now that is something I would really love more information about. If anyone wants to email me examples of that type of thing please do. For those who re as green as I am , I will post the information here and we can all learn together.
Accomplished to do list.
Have 4 hull sections started. Three are about 60% done as far as attaching the water bottles. I would have more done but my work table is only so big and as they grew in circumference I had to take one off.
I am amazed at how fast that part is going. It takes longer to let the foam set up then it does to attach the bottles. The only thing is I started using tape to hold in the bottles that wanted to slide out of place instead string. its easier faster and i can reuse the tape sections at least a couple of times if I don't forget to move them in time. I found a use for the large 2 liter bottles . I am going to use then for the corners. To save time and foam I am thinking about laminating foam sheet sections inside the low areas like in fiber glassing. I'm thinking it will be cheaper also.
Ordered tarps. They are due to arrive between the 5th and the 12th. That means there is probably no way this will be ready for boots but what the hey!
Picked up some Thompson's water seal with mildew control for water proofing. I hate not going with the epoxy right off but finances is finances. Is it better to temporarily sacrifice the epoxy job and fancy wood for now and get on the lake or wait til next spring to do this? I figure since the toy is not going to be sitting on the water all the time, I might get a season or two out of using plain old fashioned cheap CDX plywood and some of the 2x4s i have around here. I can redo it later after I get the money saved up. If I do epoxy I want to go with west system. That stuff ain't cheap but I hear nothing but good things about it. Plus I LOVE the tutorials on the web site. Even I should not be able to mess that up. It appears that if you simply read the directions and actually do it the way they say to, it's danged near idiot proof.
Have been researching sailing classes. Turns out there are ASA classes with in a reasonable commute! YIPPEE!!!!! Emails the marina for prices. Keeping my fingers crossed the price is no way out of my budget. Living on less then 700 a month really BITES!
Someone suggested I put a wish list / donation button for pay-pal up and any one that wants to can help. I'm seriously thinking about that.
The topic of what to I want to accomplish with the toy keeps coming up. Here it is folks straight from the horses mouth. The MAIN GOAL of The Toy, as I have started calling it, is for me to simply go have some FUN! Yes I'll get a few clues about rigging since I am going to have to continue to research that one a bit more. Yes I'm going to learn some other things. That is part of it. No, I do not expect to learn a lot of other things that will be useful on a "REAL" boat. I know there is a HUGE difference between various crafts. That's fine. I'm not worried about it. I cannot do it all in one shot, so each area will take it turns same as any other subject. I hope this does not offend any one. Since I'm not sitting on a sailing kitty of thousands of dollars there is no other option. If this offends any one please, buy all means, feel free to donate what ever you think your way would cost and I'll see how close I can come to working your way into my values and lifestyle.
What kind of boat do I eventually want? I'm seriously thinking a 30-40 ft cat. Even though they can be more expensive tn a marina and a lift to the heard I still think that is the way to go. Now granted I might change my mind a hundred times before i make the final decision and am very interested in hearing what other people have to say abut other types of boats.
Searched out some more marinas for crewing. The guys are interested as well so that is three to crew in local area. We are thinking that each on doing this on their own would not be a bad thing as well as when the chance occurs do it together if someone has room. Not a lot with classified sections for this. Here it is folks. Any one in the area between Lawton, Wichita Falls, OKC or Denton areas looking for crew contact me at through comments.
I drew this with paint thought I'd throw it in. It's not finished as you can see it does not have the tiller or center board on it. It does give the basic idea.
August 4, 2010
Went scrounging for materials today. Got quite a good haul. The out side of hull section one is getting much closer to being ready to cover with tarps. Am trying square shape for hulls.
Found some foam that is pre-cut and almost perfect as it for tips on bow. All I am going to have to do for shape is trim it down a bit to fit in hole and round off tips.
I probable should have mentioned this earlier. A lot of folks have emailed asking why I do not just build one of the small boats.
I've looked at them. One of the things I want to be able to do is stay out over night anchored on a local lake and sleep on board. With the deck surface area of design I am using I can do that. The idea is throw a tarp and or mosquito netting over the boom after I set anchor and be able to roll out a sleeping bag. Yes. I am planning a set of rails to prevent me from accidentally rolling off the boat while I am asleep.
Went to Walmart to get weight gauge for hulls. Thought I'd take a look at the boat section. I found the portable Bow and stern lights cheaper then the stated price on line, so that's one more thing off the list of "buy it". Still debating which anchor type to get. Need to find out what kind of bottom we have locally.
Broke down and bought a cheap caulking gun. You just know now that I bought a replacement the one we cannot find will show up .
August 4, 2010
General thoughts:
For the last several months I've had this nagging idea that after I get things wrapped up on this end, relocate to the an area with a navigable river. The basic idea is to find someone with some under improved or unimproved land on the navigate able part of the river that I can rent or lease cheap enough and camp out while I find a boat and get it worked on and learn to sail it. It' needs to be far enough North to avoid most of hurricane season, plus being out of the Florida area will be cheaper on insurance.
It is a straight shot of only about 200 Nautical miles to Bermuda from The East Coast, depending on where you leave from. My idea is once the skills are acquired making runs between the two points would be good practice for over night runs. I am also thinking that might be a good place to use as home base for crewing jobs to learn more. It would be good for learning about tides etc. There are National parks on rivers and coastal areas which would be great for taking off from the home base and do a trial run on what do I absolutely need on the boat as far as personal gear and to field test gear, boat and me. Take what I think I am going to need and see how close I come.
A Tip I pulled off a yahoo group.
I was away from my boat for 6-weeks last summer and returned to find my fuel tank had pitted and I had diesel in the bilge. The entire boat smelled like a fuel tank and had been cooking in 95+ temps. I pulled the tank (easy) but the stink remained - Here's the cure:
Mix 1/2 original Listerine with 1/2 white vinegar and spray on everything - bilge, cushions, clothing, bulkheads - EVERYTHING. The boat smells like Listerine for about 24-hours and then presto - no more unwanted smells.
ALSO:
put a small dish of original Listerine just outside your companionway (or spray on your screens) - mosquitoes and no-seeums hate it.
August 10, 2010 It has been suggested in a yahoo group that I NEVER take any one that cannot swim with me. Good advice. I pass this one for other newbies.
I need to clarify something . On the looking to crew aspect of this page for now it is about local day trips or over night trips since we are not ready for going out of area yet.
Sail Dimensions
Taken from a post in a yahoo group
Look at the Bruce number, which is the square root of sail area divided by the cube root of weight. Because Edmond Bruce was American, it is commonly calculated from imperial units, using square feet for the sail area and pounds for the weight. Beach catamarans, ORMA 60 trimarans and the like have Bruce numbers of 2 or more. Cruising monohulls usually have Bruce numbers between 1 and 1.3. You could see how much your catamaran weighs, then calculate which sail area gives you the desired Bruce number.
The Bruce number ignores the righting moment. If you want to take that into account, look up the formula for wind pressure, multiply by a realistic coefficient of lift (I think 1.2 - 1.5, but that is only a vague memory), work out the lever arm between the sail's centre of effort and that of your board, hull and rudder, and calculate at what wind speed your heeling moment equals righting moment. That is much easier for multihulls than monohulls, at least for transverse stability. I read that ORMA 60 trimarans can already get up on one hull in 8 knots true wind (they go so fast they might see nearly 20 knots apparent wind), Wharram writes the Tiki 21 needs 30 knots (I expect that would be apparent wind). The Tiki is a cruiser, the ORMA 60s are all out racers.
If you scaled all dimensions of a design by the same factor, the Bruce number would be the same, but the static stability would be less. The reason is that heeling moment grows with the third power of the scale factor, the righting moment with the fourth power. So if you designed a boat much smaller than the Tiki 21 and wanted it to need as much wind to capsize, you would have to give it proportionally less sail and/or a lower rig.
Time for �Plan C�
Plan �B� was working really well until it turned into a king sized pain in the you know where. Time for Plan �C�. They call it �figuring�. Most men and a lot of ladies know what I am referring to with anything further being said. For those who do not understand this fine, time honored tradition and absolute necessity of southern engineering, I will explain the basics.
If you have ever seen someone sit for hours, usually in the same general areas as what ever project they are working on or at least have it in they peripheral view and it really looked like they were just goofing off, then all of a sudden they got up and either went to the hardware store or building supply place , then went to work on what ever project they were doing and things went together like clock work , you have witnessed figuring. Some times it happens while fishing or playing a video game. Some times it happens while watching TV. Yeah, I never bought that one either until I started having to deal with all this "men's stuff". I have to admit some of my best ideas have come when I was doing something that had absolutely nothing to do with what ever the project or situation I needed to be working on was.
My Mother used to get so frustrated at my Dad until she figured this out. Ladies what is happening is your husband or significant other is seriously considering how they are going to get this job done given the tools, materials and circumstances they have to work with . They are playing with ideas, eliminating what won't work, or what they do not have the tools or money to do, developing what might work and tearing that down and rebuilding it over and over until they have a definite plan of action. . Yes, this is the same person who may not be able to help your second grader with math or spell any thing with more then 6 letters in it, but in this process whether they know it or not they may be doing post graduate college level calculus, trigonometry, geometry and major engineering applied mathematics all in their head.
Plan �B� was the right basic idea but the application was literally sideways and backwards in the most literal sense of the word. I was doing this the hard way. Went out today and scrounged some more materials. The problem was I needed glue, nails or something to temporarily hold things in place long enough to set it up to test this latest idea/ design. . Enter the kitchen...... I have some old bamboo skewers that are not doing any thing important except taking up space in my kitchen cabinet. WAH LAH!!! I have nails! What is better is I have REALLY LONG nails that I can custom adjust the length of with a flick of my fingers to break off as needed. It's time to play marine Tetras. All that canned foam may not have been a waste after all. It makes a GREAT pin cushion. 0)~
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UPDATE August 6, 2010
Been getting a lot of spam lately. I think it's due to dell. Might be the craigslist ads. If you send me an invite and I do not recognize your name or ID or the subject line does no mention sailing in some form, I ignore it as spam. If you want to add me to your friends list. I'm on face book and yahoo but you have to know what name, send em an email so I know it is coming . PUT YOUR TOY BLOG or something similar in the subject line
Yesterday I spent a LOT of time just reading links and watching videos on line. If you do not know about www.instructables.com go look at it! Tim Anderson's post is one of the things you WANT to look at. He includes a post on how he coped with demasting while waiting to collect everything he needed to install a new mast. I have to give it to him sailing his boat with a kite is just so ingenious It also has several post on unorthodox boats that have been made by folks. Its a paid site but worth the cost.
Today I received a link that just out does everything I have ever seen for recycling, boating and sustainability. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Island then scroll down to the 7 minute video under external links . My reaction? I WANT ONE! That would be my ultimate dream boat! If the design could just be modified for transatlantic crossings, I would so be going for it. It is definitely food for thought once things are at a point I hope to achieve. The more I think about it, a cat with the right hull length would work. It's a walk in hydroponics garden .
Yesterdays research proved out to be fruitful. I flipped the plan again. I incorporated the PVC jon boat and another video I saw into the design. It is working nicely. You tube and instructables. com has links. Sorry about no pictures for now but I now have a partial hull skeleton made out of � � PVC enclosing the 4 � PVC tubing that I foamed the water bottles to sitting on the floor in the living room. I am going to have to take this out side as the living room is going to be to small to continue this part of things. .
To figure out the dimensions I needed I took the information from rebel cats float page and did some math. Taking the volume of a cylinder 15� diameter x 12 inches high give me the volume I need to come up with how much float I had to have per linear foot. It came out to just under a square foot if I calculated this right. That was the easy part. The formula and explanation I jogged my memory with on line. Converting this to a triangle was the hard part at first. For all of those out there who are not a math genius and have forgotten how to convert a round to a triangle ( like me LOL) I printed out some graph paper that I had downloaded form the OpenOffice.org site and marked off a square 12 x 12 and cut it out. Then I folded it into a perfect triangle and cut the fold and flipped the triangles to get my size. My triangle is 24 x 17 x 17. I went to home depot and got enough pipe and fittings to get me started to make sure it will work. This portion of the hull is dry fitted and the water and foam covered lengths of 4 � PVC are inserted. I had to dismantle the long side to get it to fit and tear off a few bottles to accommodate the cross pipes but it looks good. After I line it with all the foam I have been collecting, it will work.
These dimensions provide 76.5 lbs of float per linear foot and me making the water line section of the hull 15 foot long = 1147.5 lbs capacity per hull x 2 = 2295 lbs capacity. At an average of 200 lbs each for the guys and me being way less then that (did you really think I was going to advertise my weight? O)~:) we have no worries on that concern. If we could find the room we could stick another 1800 lbs of gear, sails and rigging on this thing before we have to worry and still have buoyancy. Yes, I forgot to include the weight of the hulls/ boat in this calculation. I do not have that yet, After the thing is made I will go to the junk yard / scrap place and get it weighted.
As it turns out one layer of bottles all around the 4� is all that will fit so that's worked out well I may not be running out of bottles as soon as I thought I was. If I had not found all this foam I was seriously considering using pop cans to fill in . If you seal the opening with silicone they would would float especially when covered and sealed inside something that has been water proofed. I have been told that aluminum will corrode in water but the cans if they were used would not be in direct contact with the water so that should not be a concern, if someone wanted to go that route. Now all I have to do is either dismantle this enough to reassemble it out side OR get one of the guys to volunteer to help me get this out side. Its not THAT heavy but it is bulky and the door and corner arrangements I have to work with are interesting to say the least. Think moving a very skinny and light 10 ft couch and you get the picture.
Went to pick up more fittings. Grabbed a set of craft needles and 80 lb test to sew the foam in place for the sides to hold it while I'm doing the rest of it. Yes, I probably won't ever need that test weight but it was only a buck more so better to over kill they be sorry later since this thing is going to get knocked around a bit in the process of making it. If nothing else it will last longer on the parts that rub up against each other. Also the heavy test weight was chosen so I can use it to sew the tarp over the hulls to hi=old them in place before the finish is put on.
Smooth seas and fair winds
August 08, 2010
The first hull is outside on the work tables. I have started inserting foam pieces into the gaps. My time is spoke for the next several days but I wanted to get the napkin notes I made the other day uploaded. This is just stuff I scribbled down on napkins but it helps. Sorry about all the dead white space and size, I have not figured out how to crop in Irfanview yet and get it the way I want to .
My son keeps reminding me this is a fair weather boat. That's funny since until I get some skills, I am for now not even qualified as a fair weather sailor, since I have yet to get anything out on the water out side of the 2 man inflatable we had when he was still preschool. ROFLMAO!!!!!
We had an interesting discussion about him building his own boat.
Once I get this hull covered I am seriously thinking about strapping it to the car and taking it and some paddles out to the lake just to see what it does. Alone it should have over 1,100 pounds float capacity, IF I did the math correctly. Time to double check and make sure I remember where I put the PFD's.
PFD's are right where I thought they were. Hopefully by next week end I will have this one finished and we can test it.
The more I work on this the more this hair brained idea keeps tickling my mind. Since this is a fair weather toy, what if I took some small diameter PVC and made the equivalent of a square yurt to strap on top? I don't remember the site off hand but I saw a link where someone made clips out of PVC scraps and help a lateen sail on a PVC frame with nothing but clips. If that can hold the pressure of a sail it should hold tarps to a frame for this. Yes, for the record I have come to the conclusion if I do all this a trailer is going to be needed for any thing other then short hops to the local lake and I may have to two trip that. The up side is I was running across various web site and what do you know I fond all kinds of homemade trailers for boats. Granted they are meant for bikes but, it occurs to me, I could strap the hulls on the roof and make a small light weight trailer to put the "cabin" frames and deck on. If I do that I could make the deck wider, OR I could just save up and get one of those small utility trailers at Tracker supply.
UPDATE August 18, 2010.
I figured out a way to not need a trailer after all, even with the longer and heaver hulls.
Went to see my insurance agent. 100.00 dollars a year for liability. Not bad. Yes I realize if an accident occurred this toy would no doubt take the worse end of it. The reason I'm going to go ahead and do this is to have an established track record for marine insurance later. I read something about how some marine insurance companies do not like newbies. As I upgrade I figure it might help vs being a complete noob for insurance purposes once I get the real boat.
Assuming this expands to the point I do get a trailer that part is covered under my car policy so I'm good to go.
Was reading links, Who knew that kindle and other places let you self publish. That works for me. I've been thinking about a couple of books I want to write. Will they sell, Who knows, But it beats the idea of trying to do desktop publishing on board.
Have decided when I have the solar/ wind / hydro power set up enough to support it I am going to get a portable ice maker.
I have had this thought that hydro seems like the most feasible way to produce electricity on a boat. After all winds die, the sun sets and cloudy days happen, but water under a boat is ALWAYS moving. PVC fins on a PVC shaft that surrounds a shaft to a Low RPM alternator should work. Installing two or more just makes sense. The only glitch I can think of ( and this is not something I have done any calculations on) it would be in a storm. It would need to be something I could pull up and stow really fast in bad weather for blue water use. On a cat since the deck is above water level it seems like it could be set up similar to an outboard that just gets pulled up and lashed down . Would need some sort of quick disconnect on the wires or have them long enough to provide room to move it in a hurry. Could the alternator be wired to a large enough light plug (15 amp or larger? )and make a extension cord type set up to the charge controllers? If it was set to just below the water line it should not affect draft negatively, since the hulls would be lower then the bottom of this device. For that matter it could be set directly behind the hulls with a center rudder placement and the fins below water line. Put a hatch covering on it for removal and maintenance and it should work.
If you have posted comments and they are not showing it is because Google wants me to give them a cell number to text me at. For some reason the voice option never shows when I try to get it taken care of. I'm working on it but have not got that far on my "to do" list.
I have this crazy idea for this winter. I'm seriously thinking about maybe getting the stuff and fiber glassing these hulls just for the heck of it.
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